NBA 2008-2009 Season

[ghostfaced]

yeah i was so pissed about that god damn game i wanted to kill bob deleany..... fuck him....

[Akiyama]

Oden is indeed looking decent. 9 points 7 rebounds in 9 minutes of the first half. Geez. People saying he will never be an offensive force aren't totally wrong, but to judge him after what.. about a week or two? I just think he needs to settle int he league, get used to stuff, then maybe he can put up 13-15 a night. Not super offensive, but not crappy either.

[Bearsan]

So far, Oden has done well against less physical centers. He has really nice post moves and is really good on defense, but I want to see how he matches up against centers around his size or bigger who play really physical D.

[Akiyama]

Yeah. He can play well against the smaller "Center", but against big guys, he still needs to figure out an offensive game.

I'll say one thing.. Rudy Fernandez is fun to watch, and this dunkfest over Chicago is hilarious. Are they up 40+ with 7 minutes to go? Jesus.

[Stee]

So here's a question for you guys, if your reading this thread you probably know that Lebron is putting out some pretty damn good stats right now. He's turning 24 I think next month so who do you guys think is better, Lebron right now or Kobe when he was 24?

Yeah its comparison time, whats a basketball thread without a comparison.

Kobe was 24 during the 02-03 season, averaged 30 ppg/6.9 rebounds/ 5.9 assists/ 2.2 steals.

When I see Lebron all I see is power, which is nice but power will only take you so far in basketball. Most of his points come from using his athleticism to drive into the lanes but his jumper, free throw shooting and 3 point shot is very inconsistent and from what I have seen not much of a closer in games. Of course he is only 24 so he has lots of time to improve on these things.

Kobe obviously didn't have the athleticism of lebron but at that point he was already on the all nba 1st team and 1st defensive team. He could shoot from anywhere on the floor and he was a great closer.


I came across this video which had me thinking (this is kobe a few months before he turned 24 vs spurs in their defensive prime):
Part 1: YouTube - 2001-05-19: Kobe Bryant 45 points, 10 rebounds, 3 assists vs. Spurs (Game 1 of the WCF). Part 1/2
Part 2: YouTube - 2001-05-19: Kobe Bryant 45 points, 10 rebounds, 3 assists vs. Spurs (Game 1 of the WCF). Part 2/2

EDIT: my bad he was 22 during the video

[Yangsing]

So far, Oden has done well against less physical centers. He has really nice post moves and is really good on defense, but I want to see how he matches up against centers around his size or bigger who play really physical D.

Those centers would be who? Shaq, Dwight and.....maybe Bynum

[Bearsan]

I'm not quite sure about how to compare the two. Two seasons ago I definitely would have said Kobe, but LeBron has since developed a killer instinct. Comparing them at the age of 24, I would have to take LeBron because his athleticism allows him to dominate, and he also makes his teammates better. Kobe would have been the better defender though. However, because LeBron's scoring ability is often attributed to his power, which makes up for other parts of his game that are suspect (mainly his jumper), I think that when both retire, Kobe will have been a better player over a longer period of time. I don't see Lebron's athleticism giving him the longevity that Kobe's skills give him.

Kobe is still an asshole though, and I am from LA.

[Bearsan]

Those centers would be who? Shaq, Dwight and.....maybe Bynum

Tim Duncan, Jermaine O'neal (he might be washed up, but he's still a great defender), and Tyson Chandler come to mind.

[Yangsing]

I'll agree that for the most part Oden has played some non-physical centers. Although he did play against Tyson Chandler about a week ago and Tyson Chandler had a subpar game while Oden had like 11 pt, 11reb, and 4 blocks in 24min. Duncan wouldn't probably guard Oden anyways. Blazers will be playing Phoenix on Saturday I think, so we'll see how he does against Shaq.

Most of Oden's offense so far has been coming off of penetration created by the Blazer guards and offensive rebound put backs. His post game is rudimentary at the moment.

[Kyo]

Tim Duncan, Jermaine O'neal (he might be washed up, but he's still a great defender), and Tyson Chandler come to mind.

Duncan's not a center.

Also at this age lebron has already past kobe's 11k points when he was 24, by well over a year if that helps you compare the two.

Personal opinon I think lebron is a better player, he carries the whole team, and they win. Kobe is a great defender and a closer and from time to time he takes on the whole load but lebron does it for a whole season.

This year lebron is much improved on his jumpers, 3's and has improved heavily on his defense. Held Peirce to like 15 in their game this year if Im not mistaken.

[Bearsan]

Duncan's not a center.

Also at this age lebron has already past kobe's 11k points when he was 24, by well over a year if that helps you compare the two.

Personal opinon I think lebron is a better player, he carries the whole team, and they win. Kobe is a great defender and a closer and from time to time he takes on the whole load but lebron does it for a whole season.

This year lebron is much improved on his jumpers, 3's and has improved heavily on his defense. Held Peirce to like 15 in their game this year if Im not mistaken.

Yeah, I agree that LeBron is the better player, and I would rather have him at this point in their careers. However, there does seem to be a double standard for Kobe and "carrying" his team. After the Shaq trade and before we stole Gasol, Kobe would get blamed for trying to do too much and for doing too little, especially during the two first round losses to Phoenix. In terms of accomplishment, neither has led their team to a championship while being the most dominant player on their respective teams, regardless of how good their stats are. This looks like it could change for Kobe really soon, and I hope LeBron gets that chance before he retires. It would be a shame otherwise.

[Deejay]

Duncan's not a center.

Also at this age lebron has already past kobe's 11k points when he was 24, by well over a year if that helps you compare the two.

Personal opinon I think lebron is a better player, he carries the whole team, and they win. Kobe is a great defender and a closer and from time to time he takes on the whole load but lebron does it for a whole season.

This year lebron is much improved on his jumpers, 3's and has improved heavily on his defense. Held Peirce to like 15 in their game this year if Im not mistaken.

You guys are dumb if you think Lebron is the better basketball player. Lebron is Lebron because he's a freak of nature. But when it comes to raw basketball ability, Kobe trumps him. Kobe's a better defender without a shadow of a doubt, better shooter in every aspect of the game, and has way more range and command of his jump shot. When your skillset is comparable/better than fucking Michael Jordan, there isn't anyone in the world who's better than you.

Lebron is arguably a better finisher, but Kobe is no slouch in that department either. Probably a very close 2nd.

And I don't even like Kobe/the Lakers that much, but I can't stomach people saying Lebron is actually a better basketball player than Kobe. It's simply not true.

Kobe also came before Lebron did and was forced to sit his rookie season behind a primed Eddie Jones. Lebron probably wouldn't have even been drafted so high if it weren't for guys like Kobe, KG, and TMac dominating the league before him.

[Dimmauk]

Tim VP Duncan so far this year has been awesome. The Spurs are not so good right now because of injuries, but Tim has them winning some games. He is easily the MVP right now.

[Kyo]

You guys are dumb if you think Lebron is the better basketball player. Lebron is Lebron because he's a freak of nature. But when it comes to raw basketball ability, Kobe trumps him. Kobe's a better defender without a shadow of a doubt, better shooter in every aspect of the game, and has way more range and command of his jump shot. When your skillset is comparable/better than fucking Michael Jordan, there isn't anyone in the world who's better than you.

Lebron is arguably a better finisher, but Kobe is no slouch in that department either. Probably a very close 2nd.

And I don't even like Kobe/the Lakers that much, but I can't stomach people saying Lebron is actually a better basketball player than Kobe. It's simply not true.

Kobe also came before Lebron did and was forced to sit his rookie season behind a primed Eddie Jones. Lebron probably wouldn't have even been drafted so high if it weren't for guys like Kobe, KG, and TMac dominating the league before him.

It's obviously dumb to have an opinon that doesnt agree with what you think.

[Pro]

I agree with almost you said Deejay, except the part where LBJ is a better closer than Kobe.

YouTube - Kobe Bryant Clutch Performances

Kobe has always had strong finishes in 90% of the games he's had to take over the game...until LBJ consistently does this, I'll stick with Kobe being the better closer. I'd rather have Kobe taking over the game/taking the last shot of the game, than LBJ.

[Deejay]

When i said finisher, I meant that he was a better finisher at the basket. (ie. dunking, power moves to the basket, layups)

kobe is leaps and bounds ahead at closing out games too. I would also put Wade ahead of lebron in that department also.

[Pro]

Then I change my stance to, I totally agree with you.

I don't think that measuring Points is a good way to measure a player. Considering that, like Deejay said, Kobe didn't play much of his first, and iirc, his second season much because of people like Eddie Jones and Nick. There were just too many shooting guards. Oh let us forget the fact that Kobe actually had to defer the ball a lot to Shaq and Co. In the meanwhile, who do the Cavs have other than Lebron himself, to score more than 20 consistently? Remember that 81 point game he(Kobe) had one time?

I really like Lebron, and think he's going to be a force. I mean he's done so much with the Cavs, taken them to the finals and what-not. But he has not yet reached Kobe in all around game, or greatness.

[Yangsing]

Kobe is clutch? Honestly, I don't watch enough of his games to make a judgment on that but he's been non-clutch during recent playoffs (The games that matter).

[Pro]

lol? did you even bother watching the 8 minute video I posted? Solely basing your opinion off of the Boston series = lol.

[Dimmauk]

Did Lebron cry like a baby when he lost to the Spurs? Kobe did, so Lebron is more of a man.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4.../kobe/b81e.jpg

Yeah, I'm a Bastard.