Gardening Tests

[zantes]

I am starting a new project to collect data on aspects of gardening. There is still a lot of unknowns with gardening which I will endeavor to explore.

DISCLAIMER: This thread is not to say what will make you more money when gardening. It is meant to be a discussion on how to maximize the yield when targeting specific items. Any questions about how to make the most money from gardening will be 'do your own research'.

• Arcane Flowerpot - these pots take approximately 50% longer to harvest but are supposed to produce about 50% extra yield. I will be trying to quantify this affect.
• Wooden Flowerpot - the exact effect of these pots is unknown.
• Elemental affinities of seeds - What (if any) element is each seed associated with.
• Elemental affinities of pots - What (if any) element is each pot associated with.
• Rock salt - When and why is this a possible result.
• Little worms - When and why are they a possible result.
• Crystals - How are the number of crystals harvested affected.

Elemental Properties of Seeds:
Cactus Stems - Unknown
Fruit Seeds - Water Proof
Grain Seeds - Fire Proof
Herb Seeds - Wind Proof
Tree Cuttings - Unknown
Tree Saplings - Unknown
Vegetable Seeds - Earth Proof
Wildgrass Seeds - Earth* discussion

Elemental Properties of Pots:
Arcane - Unknown
Brass - Fire
Ceramic - Water
Earthen - Earth
Porcelain - Wind
Wooden - Unknown

Gardening Results:
Arcane Flowerpot / Brass Flowerpot / Ceramic Flowerpot / Earthen Flowerpot / Porcelain Flowerpot / Wooden Flowerpot
Cactus Stems / Fruit Seeds / Grain Seeds / Herb Seeds / Tree Cuttings / Tree Saplings / Vegetable Seeds / Wildgrass Seeds

There will be a number of theories that I will be posting as I go through the different aspects of gardening.

Theories:
Elemental Aura Theory
Every time you plant a seed in a pot, you have created an elemental aura. The type of aura you create depends on the elemental attributes of the pot, seed and the day the seed was planted. I believe that proper manipulation of this aura can give better harvests and also more specific harvests.

                 |                            Results
Crystal Used     |Rock            |Ore          |Crystal          |Cluster
Dark Crystal     |Black Rock      |Dark Ore     |Light Crystal    |Light Crystal 
Earth Crystal    |Yellow Rock     |Earth Ore    |Lightning Crystal|Lightning Cluster
Fire Crystal     |Red Rock        |Fire Ore     |Ice Crystal      |Ice Cluster
Ice Crystal      |Translucent Rock|Ice Ore      |Wind Crystal     |Wind Cluster
Light Crystal    |White Rock      |Light Ore    |Dark Crystal     |Dark Crystal 
Lightning Crystal|Purple Rock     |Lightning Ore|Water Crystal    |Water Cluster
Water Crystal    |Blue Rock       |Water Ore    |Fire Crystal     |Fire Cluster
Wind Crystal     |Green Rock      |Wind Ore     |Earth Crystal    |Earth Cluster

1) Crystals
Crystals are obviously of the same element that their name indicates (i.e. Fire crystal = fire element, ice crystal = ice element, etc.). When growing crystals, it is impossible to get crystals of the element of the seed.

2) Colored Rocks
The colored rocks are the same element as their color (i.e. red = fire, yellow = earth, green = wind, etc.). These can occur when using the appropriate crystal or when using none (element of the seed affects this).

3) Rock Salt
Rock Salt is a possibility when you feed a seed a crystal that is strong against the element that the seed is or when you don't feed the seed at all.

4) Little Worms
Little Worms seem to be produced when you use the crystal that is the same element as the seed. (I.e. Grain seeds (fire based) only produce little worms when feeding them a fire crystal.)

-------------------------------------

Possible items to grow:

Elemental Ores
Dark Ore
Earth Ore
Fire Ore
Ice Ore
Light Ore
Lightning Ore
Water Ore
Wind Ore

Clusters
Earth Cluster
Fire Cluster
Ice Cluster
Lightning Cluster
Water Cluster
Wind Cluster

Crystals
Dark Crystal
Earth Crystal
Fire Crystal
Ice Crystal
Light Crystal
Lightning Crystal
Water Crystal
Wind Crystal

Colored Rocks
Black Rock
Blue Rock
Green Rock
Purple Rock
Red Rock
Translucent Rock
White Rock
Yellow Rock

Nuggets
Brass Nuggets
Bronze Nuggets
Copper Nuggets
Darksteel Nuggets
Gold Nuggets
Iron Nuggets
Mythril Nuggets
Platinum Nuggets
Silver Nuggets
Steel Nuggets

Beastcoins
Gold Beastcoins
Mythril Beastcoins

Chocobo Food
Azouph Greens
Cupid Worms
Garidav Wildgrass
Gregarious Worms
Parasite Worms
Sharug Greens
Tokopekko Wildgrass
Vomp Carrots
Zegham Carrots

Flowers
Amaryllis
Carnations
Chamomile
Lilacs
Marguerites
Mistletoe
Rain Lillies
Red Rose

Fruit
Buburimu Grapes
Derfland Pears
Faerie Apples
Kitrons
Persikos
Rolanberries
San D'Orian Grapes
Saruta Oranges
Thundermelons
Watermelons
Yagudo Cherries

Harvest
Saruta Cotton

Metal Leaves
Gold Leaves
Mythril Leaves
Platinum Leaves
Silver Leaves

Misc
Little Worms
Rock Salt
Shell Bugs

Misc Food
Sunflower Seeds
Tarutaru Rice

Monster
Bird Eggs
Black Chocobo Feather
Crawler Cocoons
Giant Bird Feathers
Marlboro Vines
Yagudo Feathers

Mushroom
Coral Fungus
Danceshroom
Deathball
Puffball
Reishi Mushroom
Screamshrooms
Sleepshrooms
Sobbing Fungus
Woozyshroom

Ore
Adaman Ore
Gold Ore
Zinc Ore

Seed
Tree Sapling

Spice
Bay Leaves
Black Pepper
Cinnamon
Ginger
Mhaura Garlic
Sage
Windurstian Tea Leaves

Vegetable
Blue Peas
Eggplants
Frost Turnips
Kazham Peppers
Kukuru Beans
La Theine Cabbages
Millioncorn
Mithran Tomatoes
Popotos
San D'Orian Carrots
Wild Onions

[zantes]

Elemental Aura Theory
Out of all the possible items to obtain by gardening, the ones we know the elemental properties of crystals, clusters, elemental ores and rocks.

                 |                            Results
Crystal Used     |Rock            |Ore          |Crystal          |Cluster
Dark Crystal     |Black Rock      |Dark Ore     |Light Crystal    |Light Crystal 
Earth Crystal    |Yellow Rock     |Earth Ore    |Lightning Crystal|Lightning Cluster
Fire Crystal     |Red Rock        |Fire Ore     |Ice Crystal      |Ice Cluster
Ice Crystal      |Translucent Rock|Ice Ore      |Wind Crystal     |Wind Cluster
Light Crystal    |White Rock      |Light Ore    |Dark Crystal     |Dark Crystal 
Lightning Crystal|Purple Rock     |Lightning Ore|Water Crystal    |Water Cluster
Water Crystal    |Blue Rock       |Water Ore    |Fire Crystal     |Fire Cluster
Wind Crystal     |Green Rock      |Wind Ore     |Earth Crystal    |Earth Cluster

Premise #1: If crystals or clusters are going to be harvested, they will be the element that is weak to the aura produced.

Premise #2: If rocks or elemental ores are going to be harvested, they will be of the element of the aura produced.

Let’s examine one of the recipes for growing wind crystals

Porcelain Pot
Vegetable Seed
Ice Crystal

Results: Wind Crystals (16-20)
Other possible results: Saruta Cotton

We see that vegetable seeds (earth) are planted in a porcelain (wind) pot. Since earth is weak to wind, we have now created a wind aura. When the time comes for feeding, we feed it an ice crystal (ice of course). Ice is strong against wind, so the aura now shifts to ice. I also believe it gets stronger as a result. When this plant would be harvested, it checks to see if crystals are to be harvested. If they are, they will be wind crystals as explained in point #1. Other attempts at growing wind crystals with a different pot won’t produce the same results because they don’t establish this same aura.

[geno3302]

Maybe I'm wrong, but hasn't all of this been done already? I remember a site called pico pots or something that has all the info on this.


Edit: Not saying it's bad you're doing this, just trying to save you a lot of work/time if it's been done.

[zantes]

Maybe I'm wrong, but hasn't all of this been done already? I remember a site called pico pots or something that has all the info on this.


Edit: Not saying it's bad you're doing this, just trying to save you a lot of work/time if it's been done.

Pikko does have a website with a lot of information about gardening. I feel that there are more things to explore than what she has on the site. Some of the information that I am using has come from her site, but I am trying to take it further.

[Ambir]

There is a lot more to Gardening than is on Pikko's site. NAs started to do some testing early on, but for some reason, never even completed the seed/crystal combinations.

I suspect that the number of tests required to prove different days/elements/moons etc will be too great to positively determine an effect (most likely like crafting, if there is an effect, its small), but I wish you luck.

Still curious about the exact arcane flowerpot effects.

[zantes]

I know that some arcane flowerpots recipes (for lack of a better term) are no better than one of the normal pots (brass, ceramic, earthen or porcelain). I'd have to check my notes to see which one that is though.

I've also noticed an increased yield on some wooden flowerpot recipies.

[zantes]

Here's an example of when Arcane Flowerpots don't seem to be beneficial. Tarutaru rice, a favorite item to grow, has different values in each type of pot. All values below are with Fire Crystals. I'll only display the values of Tarutaru Rice and Ice Crystals.

Arcane Flowerpot:

• Ice Crystal 9-10
• Tarutaru Rice 12-17

Brass Flowerpot:

• Ice Crystal ~4
• Tarutaru Rice 8-13

Ceramic Flowerpot:

• Ice Crystal 3-5
• Tarutaru Rice 8-13

Earthen Flowerpot:

• Ice Crystal 3-6
• Tarutaru Rice 12-17

Porcelain Flowerpot:

• Ice Crystal 3-4
• Tarutaru Rice 9-12

Wooden Flowerpot:

• Ice Crystal ~4
• Tarutaru Rice ~11

The best pot out of the 4 normal pots (Brass, Ceramic, Earthen and Porcelain) is clearly Earthen if you are looking for growing Tarutaru Rice. Wooden Flowerpots don't affect this recipe at all based on this information however Arcane Flowerpots do affect this, but only the Ice Crystal yield. The Tarutaru Rice yield isn't different from the Earthen Flowerpot values, and with Arcane Flowerpots taking around 50% greater time to grow, obviously not worthwhile.

[zantes]

Here's an example of when Arcane Flowerpots do seem to be beneficial. Using Grain Seeds and Wind Crystals, you get either Earth Crystals or Millioncorn.

Arcane Flowerpot:

• Earth Crystal ~27
• Millioncorn 20-27

Brass Flowerpot:

• Earth Crystal ~9
• Millioncorn 8-21

Ceramic Flowerpot:

• Earth Crystal 8-12
• Millioncorn 11-22

Earthen Flowerpot:

• Earth Crystal 11-18
• Millioncorn 10-22

Porcelain Flowerpot:

• Earth Crystal ~11
• Millioncorn 10-22

Wooden Flowerpot:
* Not enough testing on this combination with Wooden Flowerpots.

The best pot out of the 4 normal pots (Brass, Ceramic, Earthen and Porcelain) is Earthen as it has the best yields for both Earth Crystals and Millioncorn. Arcane Flowerpots seem to increase the crystal yield on this recipe by around 50% and the Millioncorn yield by about 25%.

[Frenzy]

Were those tests conducted with the same moon phase/day/town during planting/feeding/harvesting for each pot?

Otherwise they'd be possible variables screwing up the data for pot alone.

[zantes]

Those values are averages over a number of different combinations. Because they're averages, it's fairly safe to assume that the other variables aren't causing much of an effect on the numbers. Also, it hasn't been proven that any of moon phase/day/town during planting/feeding/harvesting have an effect on gardening for certain. That is part of what I am going to try and determine with this project.

[Frenzy]

Those values are averages over a number of different combinations. Because they're averages, it's fairly safe to assume that the other variables aren't causing much of an effect on the numbers.

How many harvests where conducted per pot/combination? Less than 100 gives inacurate data, even 100 is rather uncertain. 1000 and more would be likely to give usable results.

Also, it hasn't been proven that any of moon phase/day/town during planting/feeding/harvesting have an effect on gardening for certain. That is part of what I am going to try and determine with this project.

Hence why I asked whether those figrues are from comparable experiments, otherwise the data would be useless.

[zantes]

On all of the cases that I've recorded, there are less than 100 samples. The problem here is pure time (takes minimum 4 days to grow). Normally, I'd be with you on the sample size but when the results get clumped together so much with only a small sample size, it is possible to make some suppositions about the values. Of course, the larger the sample size, the better the data.

[Frenzy]

On all of the cases that I've recorded, there are less than 100 samples. The problem here is pure time (takes minimum 4 days to grow). Normally, I'd be with you on the sample size but when the results get clumped together so much with only a small sample size, it is possible to make some suppositions about the values. Of course, the larger the sample size, the better the data.

No, I don't think one can make a supposition. I have seen it with Chocobo Racing, I clocked in more than 150 race cycles (that's more than 1000 races between June update and September update, more than 100 hrs racing and only racing) and the data is still not evening out. There are still streaks of luck/bad luck influencing the average after it has seemingly evened out.

Thinking that so little data can show anything leads only to false theories and wish thinking. It may take time, but nobody is breathing down your neck to get results now. Results that are a long time in the coming and accurate are better than results that are available now but can be changelled for almost assuredly being flawed.

(Have you checked that your test combinations are occuring at equal rates, or is maybe one combination happening more often than others, and even then it might have just been luck for those combinations.)

[zantes]

I'm not worried about the time that this will take as I know that it will be quite a while. I've been using gardening to make money on a consistant basis and therefore have been concerned with the average yield. I've done enough gardening (always 10 pots per character) to see how things will be affected based on the type of pot.

I have 1 character that has a set of 10 arcane flowerpots that I use. I will never grow tarutaru rice using fire crystals with arcane flowerpots again as it takes to long to get the same results as I would using earthen pots. I still keep the arcane flowerpots though as I do get a benefit out of them when doing ice ores (double ice ore per pot and increased platinum leaves yield is nice).

For chocobo racing, are you referring to racing your chocobo against the computer ones in the 'free' races? If so, I've seen data that indicates they are on a regular cycle.

[tymora]

Thanks. I had the impression that Arcane is x2 yields for x2 growing time but is otherwise neutral element-wise. Cuts down seed usage.
It kind of sucks watching things grow in them though...

[zantes]

Thanks. I had the impression that Arcane is x2 yields for x2 growing time but is otherwise neutral element-wise. Cuts down seed usage.
It kind of sucks watching things grow in them though...

I'm pretty sure it isn't this drastic of an increase. As I mentioned in earlier posts, not all recipes are equal when it comes to the effects of arcane flowerpots.

It does suck watching plants grow in them. It's just as bad as watching paint dry.

[Frenzy]

For chocobo racing, are you referring to racing your chocobo against the computer ones in the 'free' races? If so, I've seen data that indicates they are on a regular cycle.

They are on a regular cycle, eight races for Windurst and than the combatant pattern repeats).
That's why I said race cycles, I did each of the eight races more than 150 times (though I lumped the sure wins together, the other five are the ones of interest).

I also record my standings on the Circuit, but those are only for posterity, there are too many variables to make to predict anything that would be of use.

I'm growing Wildgrass Seeds, though I'm too lazy to keep detailed track of the results.

[zantes]

Do you grow wildgrass seeds for anything specific? Do you use the results yourself or do you sell any/all of it? If you sell it, do you vendor it or bazaar/ah it?

[zantes]

Proof that Grain Seed = Fire

For this proof, there are a few things that we have to accept:

1) Crystals
Crystals are obviously of the same element that their name indicates (i.e. Fire crystal = fire element, ice crystal = ice element, etc.). When growing crystals, it is impossible to get crystals of the element of the seed.

2) Colored Rocks
The colored rocks are the same element as their color (i.e. red = fire, yellow = earth, green = wind, etc.). These can occur when using the appropriate crystal or when using none (element of the seed affects this).

3) Rock Salt
Rock Salt is a possibility when you feed a seed a crystal that is strong against the element that the seed is or when you don't feed the seed at all.

Facts:

• If you don’t feed grain seeds any crystal during growth, it is possible for them to produce Red Rocks.
• You can't grow fire crystals using grain seeds.
• Grain seeds can only produce rock salt if you feed them Water Crystals or nothing.

Based on these observations, Grain Seeds are indeed Fire based.

[zantes]

Proof that Herb Seed = Wind

For this proof, there are a few things that we have to accept:

1) Crystals
Crystals are obviously of the same element that their name indicates (i.e. Fire crystal = fire element, ice crystal = ice element, etc.). When growing crystals, it is impossible to get crystals of the element of the seed.

2) Colored Rocks
The colored rocks are the same element as their color (i.e. red = fire, yellow = earth, green = wind, etc.). These can occur when using the appropriate crystal or when using none (element of the seed affects this).

3) Rock Salt
Rock Salt is a possibility when you feed a seed a crystal that is strong against the element that the seed is or when you don't feed the seed at all.

Facts:

• If you don’t feed herb seeds any crystal during growth, it is possible for them to produce Green Rocks.
• You can't grow wind crystals using herb seeds.
• Herb seeds can only produce rock salt if you feed them Ice Crystals or nothing.

Based on these observations, Herb Seeds are indeed Wind based.