Monsters dying Unclaimed With DoT

[Gtype954]

I would like to talk about an issue I had plenty of times.

While Fighting Jailer of temperance, He petrified us at 1%, killed us then died by Dia. Another time we had floor 100 Cerberus with no White magic allowed, Gates of Hades us 4x in a row and we wiped and dissvernment killed him unclaimed... once again no drops.

I was wondering.. Why do mobs go Unclaimed if a persons DoT is on them. (if the DoT is on, that person is considered doing damage on him and the name should stay Claimed until noone is doing any form of damage to the mobs HP.

If Dia was on, even though we wiped, the treasure should still drop in our Pool.. and we can wait to it manually drops, or the Leader can Home point and give leader to another player or drop the one that dont need the trig in this case.

Cerberus should have dropped his 100% wightslayer that we needed from him when we died and he dided to DoT.

All I am asking is, If the mob is DoTed, if should not go unclaimed and the treasure pool should drop to the wiped Party as if they still have claim on the monster.
Also, because mobs go unclaimed to DoT, it has caused many accidental MPKs.
I was pulling Despot Doll place holder with Dia and bringing it back to the camp, and another group was pulling 3-4 and horde lullubying them. By the time I got back to camp, my Doll went unclaimed even though it has Dia on it, and as they were horde lulluby their dolls, It hit our unclaimed doll too, which was DoTed and cause the bard in their Party to die.
Our doll should have stayed claimed and should not have been able to be hit by the Bards AoE.

DoT on = Hate to the party/alliance until no form of damage is on the mob.

thanks for reading

[Thorny]

Claim is based solely on action. If the person with the last action on a mob dies, d/cs, or attacks another mob then it will unclaim. This is a very basic part of the claim system, and making DoT hold claim would make it more complicated because if you DoT 2 mobs you'd be able to claim both at once, and SE doesn't want that for some reason.. besides, wiping to nyzul and temperance is lame.

[Tordall]

This is why you don't try to finish off a big NM with Mijin Gakure (however it's spelled).

Another interesting consequence of the 'if the last person to act on a mob dies it goes unclaimed' thing is that if you die while soloing and the mob dies to DoT you don't get any drops, b/c there was no one alive to loot the corpse.

Anyway, I agree that if no one is around to loot the corpse no items should be dropped, but it sucks when this kicks in b/c a ninja 2 houred a nearly dead NM.

[Mansin]

The mob needs to be claimed in order for the game to know who to distribute the drops to. I can't speak from any programming perspective, but I don't think they could fix this just due to the fact that there's no way for the game to find out who had claim, unless they just fix the retarded bullshit that is the anti-MPK system.

[Thorny]

Also, what if a mob had different DoTs on it from different alliances? It would be unfair to one to give the drops to the other.. granted the odds against it are ridiculously low for anything serious. Programmers still have to consider these things though.

[Zidiane]

You know what would really solve it but kinda create more issues, soon as the dotter dies (Whom ever cast it), the dot wares off thus stoping a mob from dieing from DoT.

What it messes up is people who've wiped to a mob at a low% and want to bio/zombie it to keep it from regening.

[rezn0r]

messes up certain solo situations too

[Kaylia]

It used to be this way. Screenshot is old as hell, but we killed boroka with dia after everyone died (was 1min after i died)
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v5...t=BestKill.jpg

Also, what if a mob had different DoTs on it from different alliances? It would be unfair to one to give the drops to the other.. granted the odds against it are ridiculously low for anything serious. Programmers still have to consider these things though.

You just pick the top one or whatever. Dot are still linked with the player, so it's easy to know who casted what.

I don't think adding another check would hammer the server badly. Pretty sure it can handle 100 "if else" per minute.

[Sumy]

I always thought of it simply as when you die, you lose claim.

[bercus]

*hint*
--Moved to Newbie--

[Ambir]

Claim is based solely on action. If the person with the last action on a mob dies, d/cs, or attacks another mob then it will unclaim. This is a very basic part of the claim system, and making DoT hold claim would make it more complicated because if you DoT 2 mobs you'd be able to claim both at once, and SE doesn't want that for some reason.. besides, wiping to nyzul and temperance is lame.

Not quite true.

The character with the last action dies, you still have claim as long as someone alive still has hate.
The character with hate dies, you still have claim as long as someone alive still has hate.
The character with hate attacks another mob. You only use claim if the number of mobs being attacked is greater than the number of players partied (ie 1 player cannot claim 2 mobs, but 2 players can) or, if both players have more hate on the second mob than they do on the first (the first unclaims).
Noone has hate. The mob goes yellow.

This pretty much works, or nearly every time a tank died, the mob would go yellow.

The character with hate is no longer a "valid character", the mob goes yellow.

This is where the problems occur, if the player with hate leaves the zone (zones or disconnects), the mob goes yellow. More commonly, if a pet with hate is released, the mob goes yellow (as any BST will tell you).



But yeah, if the mob is nearly dead, you need to keep someone alive with hate, or it will die unclaimed.

[Thorny]

Not quite true.

<b>The character with the last action dies, you still have claim as long as someone alive still has hate.</b>
The character with hate dies, you still have claim as long as someone alive still has hate.
The character with hate attacks another mob. You only use claim if the number of mobs being attacked is greater than the number of players partied (ie 1 player cannot claim 2 mobs, but 2 players can) or, if both players have more hate on the second mob than they do on the first (the first unclaims).
Noone has hate. The mob goes yellow.

This pretty much works, or nearly every time a tank died, the mob would go yellow.

The character with hate is no longer a "valid character", the mob goes yellow.

This is where the problems occur, if the player with hate leaves the zone (zones or disconnects), the mob goes yellow. More commonly, if a pet with hate is released, the mob goes yellow (as any BST will tell you).



But yeah, if the mob is nearly dead, you need to keep someone alive with hate, or it will die unclaimed.

It's not about the player with hate. You cannot claim a yellow mob unless someone in your alliance is the top hate holder, true. However, the mob will still go yellow if the person with the last action dies.. not if the person at the top of hate list does. It takes a couple of seconds for a mob to go yellow after a death, giving the alliance a chance to do another action and maintain claim.

Edit: You can reset rage without letting it unclaim, however it's a bit tricky and if you mess up timing rage will remain or it may go unclaimed.
Step 1: Ensure hate is on PLD, if BRD has been meleeing they may be close/at hate cap. This is the easiest thing to mess up.
Step 2: Lullaby Simurgh, /assist it to ensure hate is still on PLD. The BRD will have the last action, and as such, the claim.
Step 3: Zone out on PLD, this will entirely reset their hate if it was facing them. Zone back as fast as possible, relullabying if necessary.
Step 4: Zone out on BRD, this will deaggro the mob entirely. It's name will be red for a few seconds, as usual.
Step 5: Reclaim on PLD with shield bash or something instant as soon as it returns to 'idle' stance(it's name should still be red at this point), zone back on BRD, continue fighting.

Try doing this duo, with any mob. Take as long as you want to cap hate using whatever tools you want, it's a perfect example of how claim is based on the last person to act upon the monster.

[Ambir]

It's not about the player with hate. You cannot claim a yellow mob unless someone in your alliance is the top hate holder, true. However, the mob will still go yellow if the person with the last action dies.. not if the person at the top of hate list does. It takes a couple of seconds for a mob to go yellow after a death, giving the alliance a chance to do another action and maintain claim.

I mentioned nothing about claiming. You were talking about losing claim. Getting claim after it's lost is a different situation completely.

And no, mobs don't go yellow if the person with the last action dies.

[Thorny]

...I gave you a very reasonable step by step test to show that it's based on last action only. If you simply reverse the roles and have the person with less hate and last action zone out(or die, or warp), the mob will unclaim provided no further actions are done on it within 1-2 seconds. I've done it myself, I don't have anything to prove to you. A perfect example would be mijin gakure momentarily unclaiming a mob and allowing it to die from DoT with no drops, this has happened before(do a search, I know it happened on an ouryu). The cause of this is that mijin gakure is the last action on the mob, and it immediately removes the player as a valid target.

This is where the problems occur, if the player with hate leaves the zone (zones or disconnects), the mob goes yellow. More commonly, if a pet with hate is released, the mob goes yellow (as any BST will tell you).

I've personally reset rage on Simurgh many times using the above method, which requires one person zone out while at the top of hate list to reset hate. It's never gone unclaimed during this step, only if it was reclaimed too slowly after the second person zones out.

[Baelorn]

I've seen a lot of mobs with Mijin and never once lost claim/drops(in fact one NIN I know loves killing Kirin this way and has never had any problems).

[Aragon of Odin]

Thorny's right, mob will go unclaimed if the last person to do an action on the mob dies, switches target, zones, d/c's, disengages, w/e. Doesn't matter if you have an alliance there with capped hate, it's all about the last person to do an action on the mob.

[Baelorn]

Thorny's right, mob will go unclaimed if the last person to do an action on the mob dies, switches target, zones, d/c's, disengages, w/e. Doesn't matter if you have an alliance there with capped hate, it's all about the last person to do an action on the mob.

Then why do Mijin kills still drop gear if unclaimed mobs can't drop gear into loot pool?

Doesn't make any sense, sorry.

[Aragon of Odin]

I never said those actions cause mobs to go unclaimed instantly, it takes 1 or 2 seconds. A Mijin kill is killing the mob therefore it is claimed when it dies because it dies before that couple seconds it would take for it to go unclaimed.

If you've ever just ran up to a mob and Mijin Gakured it when it was at full health you'll notcie that it goes claimed for a second or 2 before going unclaimed again, this would apply to killing the mob as well, it is claimed when it dies.

Edit: Also if you read the post right Thorny wasn't stating that Mijin was killing the mob. He said that if a mob was DoT'd (say Bio2 as an example), then a Ninja in the alliance decided to Mijin the mob thinking he could kill it, but he doesn't actually kill it instead leaves it at 1%, if no one else in the alliance performs an action on the mob afterwards it would go unclaimed within the 1-2 secs and it is actually the Bio2 that's killing the mob therefore no loot pool can be had because it died to a DoT while unclaimed.

[Byrd]

I've seen a lot of mobs with Mijin and never once lost claim/drops(in fact one NIN I know loves killing Kirin this way and has never had any problems).

It doesn't happen often, but it does happen. Whatever the game mechanic, Mijin Gakure results in a loss of claim for a brief period of time (probably between Mijin and the next action on the mob), and if he dies from DoT during that time because Mijin Gakure left him with very few HP, you lose your drops. It's rare, but it happens.

[Vyerz]

Same thing happens with the QQTH right? I didn't realize it but after I killed the 2nd QQTH solo last time he was unclaimed when he died... ;;