Obama - First Black President

[Charla]

Bill Ayers is no different than Timothy McVeigh except that he failed.

Here's your difference: McVeigh was upset about Waco. Most of the country couldn't even tell you what the hell Waco is. And that makes stopping the Vietnam war more important than retaliating for Waco.

[Churchill]

Godwin'd!

But really, how do we know whether he wanted to kill people or not?

Again, I'd like to hear your thoughts on - for example - the recent attack in Afghanistan where a reported 30-40 wedding goers were killed by US bombardment. Or the Syrian attack, all 8 civilians (among which, half a family was killed). This is just a microscopic example of the "collateral" damage in these crusades of "good intentions."

You're an idiot, lol. Yeah, you're correct on some of your foreign policy points, but you're inability to think rationally and independently past "Bush sucks, America sucks" makes you irrelevant.

[noblemountain]

Or the Syrian attack, all 8 civilians (among which, half a family was killed).

you don't know what you're talking about. buy into what you want from the media, just know that this is wrong.

[Beckwin]

wait are you saying there's been no civilian casualties in our middle eastern operations?

lawl

[Churchill]

No, I'm saying that the large majority of the ones you actually know about are Muslim propaganda.

[Elvis]

You're an idiot, lol. Yeah, you're correct on some of your foreign policy points, but you're inability to think rationally and independently past "Bush sucks, America sucks" makes you irrelevant.

Did I say "Bush sucks" or "America sucks"? I gave examples - and I can keep listing more if you'd like. Your conclusion is the simplification - not mine.

[Elvis]

you don't know what you're talking about. buy into what you want from the media, just know that this is wrong.

Really? Where's the proof? I'm sure you have some, so let's see it.

[noblemountain]

wait are you saying there's been no civilian casualties in our middle eastern operations?

lawl

no...i'm saying in this specific instance in which he's quoting, he's wrong. i spent the better part of this decade in the middle east, i know there's been civilian casualties. i just hate when people lie and make up shit about things they know nothing about. i know he probably got that from some "news" site somewhere, but it still got to me because i personally know how that operation went.

[noblemountain]

Really? Where's the proof? I'm sure you have some, so let's see it.

you accuse soldiers of killing a family, then put the burden of proof on me? lol

[Elvis]

no...i'm saying in this specific instance in which he's quoting, he's wrong. i spent the better part of this decade in the middle east, i know there's been civilian casualties. i just hate when people lie and make up shit about things they know nothing about. i know he probably got that from some "news" site somewhere, but it still got to me because i personally know how that operation went.

The attack in Syria was covered by everyone in the MSM. I didn't even list where I got the info, just google it and goto Google News. Pick what you prefer.

Like I said, if you have proof that I'm lying (which implies intent), them provide it.

[Churchill]

I accused you of the inability to think independently, and that's what we're seeing here.

[Elvis]

you accuse soldiers of killing a family, then put the burden of proof on me? lol

They DID kill a family. You mean murder right? Killing is the general result. Murder would be another case. Tell me where I said they murdered the family.

[Elvis]

I accused you of the inability to think independently, and that's what we're seeing here.

Where is that exactly? Which one of my examples (Afghanistan, Syria, various acts of state sponsor of Terror by the US in Latin America) is 'wrong'?

Keep making vague statements. Again, you're the one simplifying.

[Churchill]

2008 Abu Kamal raid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://files.myopera.com/Eddie_Lopez...e_You_Know.jpg

[noblemountain]

They DID kill a family. You mean murder right? Killing is the general result. Murder would be another case. Tell me where I said they murdered the family.

i did "mean" murder. you implied that they killed a civilian family by mistake or just because we enjoy killing middle-easterners. killing is the result of war or acts of war, which...whether you like it or not, we're in. i don't care for y'alls political arguments either way, i was just defending soldiers who're just doing their jobs and don't need anymore people like you calling us murderers.

[Elvis]

2008 Abu Kamal raid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://files.myopera.com/Eddie_Lopez...e_You_Know.jpg

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Syrian witness reacts to US raid

Syrian witness reacts to US raid

Syria has accused the US of committing a "war crime" after a helicopter raid within its borders left eight people dead.

Sam is a BBC user who lives in Abu Kamal, the Syrian border town where the attack happened on Sunday. He describes the local anger at the attack directed at America - and at Syrian authorities.

I live less than two miles (three kilometres) away from where it took place. I was asleep at the time, but went to the hospital less than two hours afterwards. Nearly everyone who had heard about it was there.

What appear to be bloodstains inside the compound (still taken from Syrian TV)
Syrian TV showed what appear to be bloodstains at the site of the attack

Most of the people here have bitter anti-American sentiments and this has only added fuel to the fire.

We are also very disappointed with the lack of response from our own authorities.

The attack was in the village of Sukariya, which is inhabited almost entirely by the Mashahda tribe.

They are very relaxed, laid back people, not very religious - there's no Mujahideen from this tribe. The guard and the woman who died were very simple people.

They lived in a tent and were being paid to guard building materials such as cement and timber, 24 hours a day. These people will have had nothing to do with the insurgency in Iraq.

Most of the people who live here have families in Iraq. A lot of smuggling goes on: bringing guns and sheep from Iraq to Syria.

There is security everywhere in this country. The government is very severe with the locals; if they have a tip-off that someone has a stolen gun, the place will be surrounded in two minutes.

But yesterday there was zero response. The attack happened close to a bridge over the Euphrates and there are military posts either side of the bridge - so very near.

But the army is indecisive when it comes to action. The people who were killed were harmless, they should have been protected. It is a very saddening experience.

People talk about patriotism, but when it comes to action - nothing.

People here hate America more than before and they are disappointed in their own authorities' response.

[Beckwin]

that link just says that there was a network in the city.

says nothing about civilians not being killed.

[Elvis]

i did "mean" murder. you implied that they killed a civilian family by mistake or just because we enjoy killing middle-easterners. killing is the result of war or acts of war, which...whether you like it or not, we're in. i don't care for y'alls political arguments either way, i was just defending soldiers who're just doing their jobs and don't need anymore people like you calling us murderers.

I didn't say they murdered anyone or that they enjoyed the killing. Find where I implied/said that. Everything is here for everyone to read.

[noblemountain]

I didn't say they murdered anyone or that they enjoyed the killing. Find where I implied/said that. Everything is here for everyone to read.

*sigh* maybe i'm a bit touchy about this sentiment lately or about this particular incident in general, but that's how i took your words. i don't EVER post in the political threads, and yet i did here because what you said struck me the wrong way. that's all i'm saying.

[Churchill]

.

Four American Blackhawk helicopters entered Syrian airspace around 16:45 local time on October 26 and deployed roughly two dozen soldiers, who attacked a building under construction in the village of As Sukkariyah, just north of Abu Kamal.[12][1] Sky News reported that two of the four American helicopters landed, allowing 10 US special forces to disembark and storm a building under construction. [13] The Syrian government stated that the soldiers killed eight civilians, including a man, his four children, and a married couple.[14][15] However, reporters said they only saw seven bodies, and no children.[16] U.S. officials contended that all those killed during the raid were associated with Abu Ghadiya, the operation's target.[17] [20]

On October 28, Israeli journalist Ronen Bergman reported Syrian intelligence had cooperated with the US against al-Qaeda, and that Syria had told the US that it would not intervene in a US strike.[29] Several days later The Times also reported that the Syrians had agreed to the raid through a back channel established with the Syrian Air Force Intelligence Directorate. According to the report, after the Syrians gave the U.S. information pertaining to the location of Abu Ghadiya, they agreed to allow the U.S. to apprehend him and bring him to Iraq; as such, when Syrian air defenses, on high alert since the Israeli-led Operation Orchard, detected the American helicopters and requested permission to engage them, it was denied. However, the unintended firefight and subsequent deaths made it impossible for the operation to remain covert. One tribal leader told the paper that an hour and a half after the attack, Syrian intelligence officers came to the area, warning the villagers that if they spoke about what had just occurred, their family members would die.[30]