Obama - First Black President

[Plow]

This planned bombing you refer to, as I understood, was being planned and was supposed to be executed by other members of the Weather Underground, not Bill Ayers specifically, right?

He "can't tell everything without endangering the people involved."

Oh, and no on the planning, he absolutely was involved directly and had been at the house where they were doing it. He just won't go in to if he was supposed to actually take it to the place and do it.

[Elvis]

Oh I miss the days when we could all rejoice in bashing Palin unanimously.

[archibaldcrane]

He "can't tell everything without endangering the people involved."

So you admit that you keep pointing to this unexecuted bombing plan as the smoking gun regarding Ayers' desire to kill innocents without knowing whether Ayers was directly associated at all, correct?

Just want to be clear here.

[Beckwin]

food4thought: no formal charges whatsoever were able to be pinned on Ayers. obviously the FBI playing dirty nulled a lot of evidence, but even then, let's not pretend like the powers that were wouldn't have tried every possible avenue to get something to stick.

[Plow]

So you admit that you keep pointing to this unexecuted bombing plan as the smoking gun regarding Ayers' desire to kill innocents without knowing whether Ayers was directly associated at all, correct?

Just want to be clear here.

Read edit, the only question is if he was actually going to be the one to take the bombs to either place, and his response is basically like big mac testifying that he wasn't there to talk about steroids.

[archibaldcrane]

Ah ok, so we just don't know but it's possible that he wanted to be directly involved in killing civilians 40 years ago.

[Plow]

Ah ok, so we just don't know but it's possible that he wanted to be directly involved in killing civilians 40 years ago.

At best, he "just" planned to do it, helped set it up, and had his girlfriend and best friend doing the dirty work.

[archibaldcrane]

And at worst?

[Charla]

Sorry to interrupt, but I just thought of something. Were these guys terrorists? They appear to have had an asymmetrical conflict, which would probably qualify as guerrilla warfare. And yet we seem to have forgotten all about it.

[Plow]

And at worst?

Sided with the guy that wanted to make sure it was bombs made to kill people, and was going to do it himself, but his girlfriend disagreed strongly enough with the idea of actually hurting people that weren't even the ones making the decisions that she blew it up intentionally killing herself and 2 others.

That's... pretty much the worst it could possibly be I think... worse could be suggested but would be going into assuming and making up possibilities.

[archibaldcrane]

Clearly whether this bomb was going to be used on people was up for discussion while it was being constructed. How do you know which position Ayers took?

[Beckwin]

Sided with the guy that wanted to make sure it was bombs made to kill people, and was going to do it himself, but his girlfriend disagreed strongly enough with the idea of actually hurting people that weren't even the ones making the decisions that she blew it up intentionally killing herself and 2 others.

That's... pretty much the worst it could possibly be I think... worse could be suggested but would be going into assuming and making up possibilities.

or the best could be:

Wasn't heavily involved, didn't Side with the guy that wanted to make sure it was bombs made to kill people, and wasn't going to do it himself, however his girlfriend disagreed strongly enough with the idea of actually hurting people that weren't even the ones making the decisions that she blew it up intentionally killing herself and 2 others.

[Plow]

or the best could be:

Wasn't heavily involved, didn't Side with the guy that wanted to make sure it was bombs made to kill people, and wasn't going to do it himself, however his girlfriend disagreed strongly enough with the idea of actually hurting people that weren't even the ones making the decisions that she blew it up intentionally killing herself and 2 others.

I already gave the best it could be.

He was "heavily involved." There is no question of that. The only question is if he intended to perform the act himself, he was directly involved with planning and preparation.


You'd think as much as you admire him you'd at least have read his books, or even analysis of them.

[Beckwin]

I've read analysis of them, and one thing that tended to be commented on was Ayers playing up/even romanticizing the degree of his involvement and actions.

was anything mentioned about evacuating the library?
who was going to be attending this officer's dance?

[Plow]

I've read analysis of them, and one thing that tended to be commented on was Ayers playing up/even romanticizing the degree of his involvement and actions.

was anything mentioned about evacuating the library?
who was going to be attending this officer's dance?

You are the flat earth society of democrats.

You make us all look bad, and it's retarded.

Everyone that was involved has said it was wrong and they were going too far.

This is the stupidest argument ever.

[Beckwin]

you're the hopeless centrist-pandering liberal that makes the rest of us look bad.

no ur the stupidest argument ever, remember how this started:


You said I was gagging on Obama for defending Ayers... when Obama himself doesn't defent Ayers. If anything, you sound more like Obama's views on him than I do.

who is really the stupid

[Correction]

who is really the stupid

For posterity.

[Beckwin]

For posterity.

for not getting fads.

[Correction]

You don't think you're trying to have it both ways by cheerleading Obama's 'negotiate with our enemies' and your 'he's the man!' fist-pumping for a guy who used explosives to make his point?

That is what this argument is about, right?

[Beckwin]

You don't think you're trying to have it both ways by cheerleading Obama's 'negotiate with our enemies' and your 'he's the man!' fist-pumping for a guy who used explosives to make his point?

That is what this argument is about, right?

are you really trying to draw that parallel? that's quite the stretch, even for you.

Yes, I called Ayers "the man" because I found that article to be exceptional and carrying a worthwhile message. It's also my opinion that he's done a good deal of good things, and that his motivations for what he did as part of the Weathermen was pretty damn justified- that view of his Weather (Underground, specifically) activities might be different if he had indiscriminately killed innocent bystander-types, but I'm not gonna judge someone for what they obviously did not do.

In response, Plow accuses me of gagging on Obama for my views on Ayers... when Obama denounced all of Ayers destructive actions from his WU days. Do you see the absurdity?