Obama - First Black President

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Clinton's airstrike's were backed by the U.N. and were directed at biological plants and factories. And when the Airstrikes happend, the GOP said it was only a diversion from the impeachment trial about getting a blowjob. Clinton also didn't go to War with Iraq.

Bush's Invasion and War on Iraq and its cities was very different than U.N. backed airstrikes.

Are you not reading? What Clinton did vs. what Bush did is not the issue. The issue is what's the difference between Bush saying, "Iraq has WMD's", Clinton saying, "Iraq has WMD's" and Gore saying, "Iraq has WMD's."

[Maxxthepenguin]

How so? Bush, Clinton, and Gore all claimed Iraq had WMD's. Just because Bush acted on it, had the Republicans not castrated Clinton he probably would have to, does not make it any less of a lie.

From what I understand, he did, or at least we suspected he did, have a program to develop nuclear weapons.

The difference is that one president sought war, one sought sanctions. As it turns out, the sanctions worked.

There was also UN backing and, as much as you fucking libertarians and conservatives whine about it, when they back things, those things tend not to go wrong as often.

A lot of you seem to think that the reason for these sorts of wars is determined by "importance". That's only somewhat true.

[kuronosan]

I'm guessing the major difference is that Bush acted on it without UN approval.

Edit: aaaaaaargh ye beat meh

[Demosthenes11]

There was also UN backing and, as much as you fucking libertarians and conservatives whine about it, when they back things, those things tend not to go wrong as often.

like kosovo right? Somalia?
Kofi Annan?

[Enkidu]

The difference is that one president sought war, one sought sanctions. As it turns out, the sanctions worked.

So what caused the death of more innocent people, the sanctions or the war?

[aurik]

Oh that's a great way to measure success, the death count of innocent people.

[Enkidu]

Oh that's a great way to measure success, the death count of innocent people.

Or maybe it's a great way to measure failure... Saying the sanction were better then the war is simply naive considering that the sanctions likely led to more innocent people (especially children) ending up dead... Not to mention the sanctions would never end with Hussein in power and the death toll would just keep rising.

Although the war was horribly conceived and horribly executed at least there's some light at the end of the tunnel.

[Dimmauk]

Or maybe it's a great way to measure failure... Saying the sanction were better then the war is simply naive considering that the sanctions likely led to more innocent people (especially children) ending up dead... Not to mention the sanctions would never end with Hussein in power and the death toll would just keep rising.

Although the war was horribly conceived and horribly executed at least there's some light at the end of the tunnel.

The difference is the U.N. sanctions go bye-bye when Saddam cooperates. He was warned of U.N. Sanctions, and he didn't cooperate. There was also the Food for Oil program that Iraq had.

If you want to play Blame game, then the U.N. sanctions killing innocent people could be blamed on the U.N. and Saddam. The innocent people killed in the Iraq can only be blamed on the Bush administration.

[archibaldcrane]

The sanctions didn't end up with over 4,100 U.S. soldiers dead.

That's the most important difference for me.

[Beckwin]

The sanctions didn't end up with over 4,100 U.S. soldiers dead.

That's the most important difference for me.

as it should be for real conservatives as well. not giving a shit about suffering/loss of innocent life universally but then trying to point to "safe" aggression/strongarming of the Clinton administration as also costing innocent life is trying to have your cake and eat it to, and that doesn't fucking fly.

[noblemountain]

The sanctions didn't end up with over 4,100 U.S. soldiers dead.

That's the most important difference for me.

this is the truth.

i also knew when i joined the army what i'd be doing. when i volunteered that third time, i knew exactly what i was volunteering for. i accepted the fact that i may not agree with why i was in certain places...that it was my job to complete my missions and bring my men home safely. we are doing a very poor job of that right now. people are dying needlessly and it makes me sick to think that people are just sitting around arguing over who was right or wrong 5-10 years ago when all we need to be thinking of is a way to get our men out and not have that country collapse upon itself.

[Churchill]

this is the truth.

i also knew when i joined the army what i'd be doing. when i volunteered that third time, i knew exactly what i was volunteering for. i accepted the fact that i may not agree with why i was in certain places...that it was my job to complete my missions and bring my men home safely. we are doing a very poor job of that right now. people are dying needlessly and it makes me sick to think that people are just sitting around arguing over who was right or wrong 5-10 years ago when all we need to be thinking of is a way to get our men out and not have that country collapse upon itself.

well as far as we're concerned we're doing a great job, but while the death of our soldiers is important, it's also important to recognize the effects of our actions, like sanctions, has on our nation.

[Kuya]

Aurik, the banks don't seem to be using the money to lend to eachother and i've heard that what they're doing is just buying smaller banks and handing out bonuses. I wasn't completely for this "bailout" but i understood that it was for the sake of providing liquidity, however, did we just get hosed again?

[Dimmauk]

Aurik, the banks don't seem to be using the money to lend to eachother and i've heard that what they're doing is just buying smaller banks and handing out bonuses. I wasn't completely for this "bailout" but i understood that it was for the sake of providing liquidity, however, did we just get hosed again?

Yup, we got hosed. And LOL @ AIG for asking for more money, then going on another employee trip to a resort.

[Correction]

Aurik, the banks don't seem to be using the money to lend to eachother and i've heard that what they're doing is just buying smaller banks and handing out bonuses. I wasn't completely for this "bailout" but i understood that it was for the sake of providing liquidity, however, did we just get hosed again?

The world may never know whether or not we got hosed. Suddenly the Fed is getting very tight-lipped on its new powers to purchase shitty assets with taxpayer money: Bloomberg.com: Worldwide

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

The world may never know whether or not we got hosed. Suddenly the Fed is getting very tight-lipped on its new powers to purchase shitty assets with taxpayer money: Bloomberg.com: Worldwide

And American Express is asking for a bailout. This is hysterical. Fuck them, let credit fold and bring the market back to trade for goods and not for credit.

[noblemountain]

And American Express is asking for a bailout. This is hysterical. Fuck them, let credit fold and bring the market back to trade for goods and not for credit.

exactly how many potatoes does it take to buy a house?

[aurik]

Yup, we got hosed. And LOL @ AIG for asking for more money, then going on another employee trip to a resort.

because employee trips that cost at most a few hundred k are going to make a huge difference when compared against an 11-digit loan.

I'm not entirely dissatisfied with the bailout. Yet. It is still very early to tell if things are changing.

[Dimmauk]

because employee trips that cost at most a few hundred k are going to make a huge difference when compared against an 11-digit loan.

I'm not entirely dissatisfied with the bailout. Yet. It is still very early to tell if things are changing.

Where is my bailout so I can go on a vacation?

[aurik]

Except they aren't spending bailout money on a vacation, so stop being a fucking retard.

Last time this came up, it was shown that the people going on a company retreat wasn't even the same business division.