Obama - First Black President

[Dimmauk]

Except they aren't spending bailout money on a vacation, so stop being a fucking retard.

Last time this came up, it was shown that the people going on a company retreat wasn't even the same business division.

It still looks bad.

[*Shinzon*]

Alot of American companies are in trouble because of incredibly poor management and the reason alot of companies are being hit so hard is because they've been mismanaged for so long that they can't recover.

A perfect example of this is Chrysler Automotive and GM. Both companies announced, yesterday or today, that they would need billions more on top of the already promised amount that the automotive industry would need because they are burning through cash and can't get their shit under control. GM has already announced that they'll be killing their line of full size SUVs minus the Escalade which is switching platforms anyway.

It's the same with banks and other companies. They've had poor business practices and when their products dont sell or their area of business slowed everything came crashing down. Even though some companies are sending employees on these luxury meetings or whatever, the money spent on those events is chump change compared to whats really going down with alot of other companies and people are just trying to grab hold of something so they can blame the company for something they're doing right now.

[aurik]

It still looks bad.

And that's why I'm glad that the extent of your influence on the American system is casting a meaningless vote every so often.

[Kiro]

'Bout goddamn time they stop making SUVs.

[Dimmauk]

And that's why I'm glad that the extent of your influence on the American system is casting a meaningless vote every so often.

It may be meaningless, because I live in Texas, but I still vote.

Also, many car companies are struggling because people can't get car loans.

[*Shinzon*]

It may be meaningless, because I live in Texas, but I still vote.

Also, many car companies are struggling because people can't get car loans.

That's not exactly true. People who buy cars generally don't buy their cars on or with loans. Most are bought with cash or half cash and half credit. The reason automakers are in trouble is more because there are too many expensive and inefficient gas guzzling cars made by the American industry specifically. People are buying from foreign automakers because their cars are generally better, smaller, better on gas and cheaper.

The American car makers are getting good at building smaller vehicles and sports cars along with fuel efficient hybrids, its just these cars aren't popular here. Ford intends to bring the Fiesta from Europe over and GM is bringing its smaller reasonably priced European models over as well. Chrysler on the other has no products that can save them and will probably the first American car maker to go away. In fact, the Dodge Avenger is being sold in Europe with a 2 for 1 package. That's right, you can buy one Dodge Avenger and they'll give you a second one for free because they can't sell them.

[Dimmauk]

Toyota just recently built a car plant here in Texas, then shortly after it closed down for 3 months. It is scary when even the Japanese car makers are struggling.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

'Bout goddamn time they stop making SUVs.

That's what makes them money lol.

[*Shinzon*]

Toyota seems to be struggling in general here, I don't think there in much better shape than a bunch of other automakers. Nissan, Hyundai, Subaru are doing reasonably and there are several other Japanese companies are doing ok. Toyota really hasn't had an exciting product in awhile. German and Italian automakers are doing fine because their cars have always been exciting and good on gas.

That's what makes them money lol.

Actually the full size SUV was their weakest product. In fact just before they brought an axe to their line of full size models they invested 2 billion dollars into hybrid research and development for those models. That's what I was referring to by burning through cash.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

If SUV's are their weakest products, then why don't they profit off of small cars?

[*Shinzon*]

If SUV's are their weakest products, then why don't they profit off of small cars?

Because the cost of production isn't getting picked up by the prices for which these cars are being sold. In other words, because people can shop around for better cars GM and Ford's decent cars (both in quality and price) get over looked by consumers who can find good cars from German or Japanese automakers who build cheaper and better cars.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Because the cost of production isn't getting picked up by the prices for which these cars are being sold. In other words, because people can shop around for better cars GM and Ford's decent cars (both in quality and price) get over looked by consumers who can find good cars from German or Japanese automakers who build cheaper and better cars.

So what you're saying is, a car they don't make profit off is a stronger car than one they do make profit off of?

[*Shinzon*]

So what you're saying is, a car they don't make profit off is a stronger car than one they do make profit off of?

You're missing the point. Just because they sell cars doesn't mean they are making money off it. The full size SUV's are sold cheaper than the cost of production along with their other models. The reason they axed the line is because they're so much more expensive to build compared to cars, that they no longer have the money to continue to produce them and in order to survive they need to compete in the small car, fuel efficient market.

To give you an idea of what I mean, the Hybrid Escalade that GM planned to build to was going to be sold at 77,000~ base price. I think it cost them something like 130,000 to build it. Why would people buy a car at that price when they can buy something for a quarter of that price and is more fuel efficient?

The only surviving model, the Escalade will look like this in the next few years:
http://www.autospectator.com/cars/fi...eChicago08.jpg

They have to build small cars and small SUVs to stay in business.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

You're missing the point. Just because they sell cars doesn't mean they are making money off it. The full size SUV's are sold cheaper than the cost of production along with their other models.

That's what I'm saying, GM has said they don't currently profit off of cars, so why is axing the SUV line good? That means they got rid of what makes them profit for something that doesn't. And GM has said they don't make profit off cars and they do off SUV's. So either GM is wrong or you're wrong.

[Correction]

American car companies lose money for making shit cars.

Yeah, I said it.

[zoobernut]

That's what I'm saying, GM has said they don't currently profit off of cars, so why is axing the SUV line good? That means they got rid of what makes them profit for something that doesn't. And GM has said they don't make profit off cars and they do off SUV's. So either GM is wrong or you're wrong.

If they make profit off an individual SUV that sells it does not help them if the SUV's are not selling.

[Dimmauk]

Well now that gas prices are back to normal, how will this effect the car business now?

[Kuya]

Well now that gas prices are back to normal, how will this effect the car business now?

You mean before they go back up again?

[*Shinzon*]

That's what I'm saying, GM has said they don't currently profit off of cars, so why is axing the SUV line good? That means they got rid of what makes them profit for something that doesn't. GM has said they don't make profit off cars and they do off SUV's. So either GM is wrong or you're wrong.

Sorry I guess I misread it. Regardless the reason killing the line will benefit them is for several reasons: First the full size line was only popular in the states, in Europe, the small car market is where the money is at. GM and Ford are trying to keep their ability to compete on a global scale. Soon enough people in the US will realize just how ridiculous these over sized luxury SUVs are when compared to more reasonable smaller cars. The Honda Pilot is about half the price of an Escalade or Tahoe and has more room and is better on gas.

The second reason is because of what I mentioned before. They can no longer afford to produce these expensive full sizes AND their smaller cars. The full size SUV was not selling more than their other models. They were in fact about the same, and so they had to make a decision on what direction would more economically beneficial and popular.

Edit: Just in case it wasn't clear the trouble of competing on the global scale is what will be the end of Chrysler. Because they are having almost no success doing it, they will be unable to save themselves by producing cheap and popular small cars. Ford and GM both have European models of small cars that they will be able to sell for profit.

[Beckwin]

So as they're counting absentee ballots in Alaska, Ted Stevens has fallen 3 votes behind Begich. Begich was down a little over 3k with 90,000 ballots left, and there's still at least 40,000 ballots to go iirc.

So maybe Alaska can partially salvage itself from the sea of lulz it's produced this election season. Also YAY SUPERMAJORITY HERE WE COME! (things look hopeful for Franken and Chambliss's seat is up in the air from what I've heard)