Obama - First Black President

[Charla]

But literally speaking, pigmentally challenged would be this guy.

[Deftscythe]

Colored is kind of archaic, but how can black people get pissed off about it when the NAACP is still called the NAACP?

[Demosthenes11]

Colored is kind of archaic, but how can black people get pissed off about it when the NAACP is still called the NAACP?

taking the word back from the man obviously

[Obev]

A spokesman for the syndicated entertainment news program said in a statement Wednesday: "We believe the word in question that Ms. Lohan used was unintelligible."

I thought Dubya was your first unintelligible president.

[Elvis]

You know that video guartz keeps trying to interject into every political conversation?


It's actually quite interesting and very related to what's being discussed right now.

YouTube - Thomas Barnett: The Pentagon's new map for war and peace

God, that's fucking depressing.

[Shuvo]

God, that's fucking depressing.

Yeah I watched it all too. Depressing but fascinating. Got any more videos like that Plow/Guartz?

[ZarakiKujata]

The important part is that good ol' Swampy can be proud the red team has more territory.

As for Stevens, he'll either lose the election or get kicked out of the Senate anyway, so it's really a question of whether he gets one boot or the other, so to speak.

Stevens is fucked either way, the real issue of concern driving this imo is if Begich loses then Sarah Palin could potentially get the seat which would be both terrible and hilarious for the country and the GOP.

[Acturus]

taking the word back from the man obviously

You're such a porch monkey (it's okay, I'm taking it back)

[Dimmauk]

Stevens is fucked either way, the real issue of concern driving this imo is if Begich loses then Sarah Palin could potentially get the seat which would be both terrible and hilarious for the country and the GOP.

Palin can only temporarily appoint herself or someone else, while the state has a special election. The people of Alaska could vote her in though.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

This discussion may have already passed but I just read that when GM & Ford lay people off, in the mid-90's, unions got GM & Ford to still pay the laid off employees 90% of what they were earning while working. For fucks sake lol, they deserve to go bankrupt if that's true.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

This discussion may have already passed but I just read that when GM & Ford lay people off, in the mid-90's, unions got GM & Ford to still pay the laid off employees 90% of what they were earning while working. For fucks sake lol, they deserve to go bankrupt if that's true.

Yeah, it's called severance pay, it only last for a year or two and it helps people stay afloat while they look for new jobs ( or people who got screwed on pension ). A lot of factory workers start work right out of high school, some of the older ones dropped out of high school. Factory work is all they know.

Corporations also use practices during layoffs such as laying people off that are close to but not yet eligible for pension.

So yeah, for shitty business practices the executives making these decisions to fuck over the working man do deserve something ( jail time imo, not company bankruptcy ). This is why we need to protect organized labor, because of unregulated corporations pulling shit to screw over the working class.

[Saphirea]

Makes me wonder why other auto companies who have plants in the US (Honda, Toyota, Nissan) that don't deal with unions are still doing somewhat well. Notice somewhat.


Here from yahoo is a stock drawing from today in 2006 to today in 2008

HMC: Summary for HONDA MOTOR CO ADR - Yahoo! Finance

All were pretty much dead even and then all of a sudden Ford / GM fell off the map in March which is typically when next years model comes out. ( I worked for Toyota for 2 years that's what I'm basing that off of)
Drawing that back all the way to 2002, Toyota / Honda are so far ahead of Ford / GM that it's not even close as far as stock.

Lets take another look at how unions are fucking things (in my opinion) Walmart today announced 3rd quarter gains of 10%.
Wal-Mart posts higher 3Q profit, but cuts outlook: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance

They too don't have any unions in it, a simple "redneck" from Arkansas company is kicking the crap out of everyone as far as gains even inside of this credit crunch. Walmart employs more than Ford and GM combined and yet Ford and GM are too big to fail?

And yet people say forced Unionism is the way to go... right.

[Beckwin]

walmart is doing well because of the variety of "shady" means they have to keep prices low, which is what people are looking for when their wallets are tight. walmart would also classify as too big to fail, btw.

[Suited Aces]

Yeah, it's called severance pay, it only last for a year or two a

No this is different. They touched on it during O&A this morning. I didn't really understand it, but in some cases it actually saves money to pay the workers to sit around and not work, instead of paying them to make a product ,pay to keep it in a warehouse and then have to pay an inventory tax too.

Jobs bank programs -- 12,000 paid not to work - 10/17/05

[Dimmauk]

Makes me wonder why other auto companies who have plants in the US (Honda, Toyota, Nissan) that don't deal with unions are still doing somewhat well. Notice somewhat.


Here from yahoo is a stock drawing from today in 2006 to today in 2008

HMC: Summary for HONDA MOTOR CO ADR - Yahoo! Finance

All were pretty much dead even and then all of a sudden Ford / GM fell off the map in March which is typically when next years model comes out. ( I worked for Toyota for 2 years that's what I'm basing that off of)
Drawing that back all the way to 2002, Toyota / Honda are so far ahead of Ford / GM that it's not even close as far as stock.

Lets take another look at how unions are fucking things (in my opinion) Walmart today announced 3rd quarter gains of 10%.
Wal-Mart posts higher 3Q profit, but cuts outlook: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance

They too don't have any unions in it, a simple "redneck" from Arkansas company is kicking the crap out of everyone as far as gains even inside of this credit crunch. Walmart employs more than Ford and GM combined and yet Ford and GM are too big to fail?

And yet people say forced Unionism is the way to go... right.

They build their plants in states that don't have Unions.

Same reason some companies move jobs to states that don't have Unions. I saw this happen first hand with Motorola.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

Makes me wonder why other auto companies who have plants in the US (Honda, Toyota, Nissan) that don't deal with unions are still doing somewhat well. Notice somewhat.


Here from yahoo is a stock drawing from today in 2006 to today in 2008

HMC: Summary for HONDA MOTOR CO ADR - Yahoo! Finance

All were pretty much dead even and then all of a sudden Ford / GM fell off the map in March which is typically when next years model comes out. ( I worked for Toyota for 2 years that's what I'm basing that off of)
Drawing that back all the way to 2002, Toyota / Honda are so far ahead of Ford / GM that it's not even close as far as stock.

Lets take another look at how unions are fucking things (in my opinion) Walmart today announced 3rd quarter gains of 10%.
Wal-Mart posts higher 3Q profit, but cuts outlook: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance

They too don't have any unions in it, a simple "redneck" from Arkansas company is kicking the crap out of everyone as far as gains even inside of this credit crunch. Walmart employs more than Ford and GM combined and yet Ford and GM are too big to fail?

And yet people say forced Unionism is the way to go... right.

What guy above me said, and also it has alot more to do with things other than unions. American car companies have been making shit products in comparison to all the foreign companies you named.

And Wal-Mart also forces people out who are hitting a cap for raises, they don't provide healthcare, they haggle distributors down to retarded low prices and recoup the profit margins themselves. So now manufacturers are losing money and shippers are losing money and distribution is losing money. gg Wal-Mart.

I can link a Yahoo article and place an opinion on it too, but I'd rather take 5 more minutes to do some research to make a solid point.

Unions are a result of shitty employment practices by corporations and their executives, the current economic crisis and posted losses by corporations are the result of shitty business practices by corporations and their executives, not the unions.

[Tristam]

What guy above me said, and also it has alot more to do with things other than unions. American car companies have been making shit products in comparison to all the foreign companies you named.

And Wal-Mart also forces people out who are hitting a cap for raises, they don't provide healthcare, they haggle distributors down to retarded low prices and recoup the profit margins themselves. So now manufacturers are losing money and shippers are losing money and distribution is losing money. gg Wal-Mart.

I can link a Yahoo article and place an opinion on it too, but I'd rather take 5 more minutes to do some research to make a solid point.

Unions are a result of shitty employment practices by corporations and their executives, the current economic crisis and posted losses by corporations are the result of shitty business practices by corporations and their executives, not the unions.

This

GM and Ford are having it tough due to bad business practices, you really can't blame the unions.

[0ni0n]

This

GM and Ford are having it tough due to bad business practices, you really can't blame the unions.

Actually the enormous burden of pension obligations imposed by UAW over the years has been killing the US automakers, in the form of reduced competitiveness in relation to JP automakers. 30% decline in sales in the last quarter just exacerbated the problem. Selling trucks was never a sustainable strategy, and it may be too late, financially speaking, for them to transit to hybrid vehicles. GM, for example, is spending 2 billion a week to keep the door open. With the credit market freezing up, they can't get loans anywhere with its bleak sales outlook. Hell, even GE had to sell its divisions to shore up its balance sheet. That's how bad it is. For the automakers, there's really not much they can do, besides consolidation or liquidation. When the automakers eventually file for bankruptcy, the resulting hundreds and billions of pension obligation over the years will fall on taxpayers. In sum, the union and the shortsightedness of their business practice are what killed the automakers.

[Charla]

So just to paraphrase

It's a little of both.

And I'd like to point out that rising medical costs are in turn partly responsible for the size of those pension payments.

[Bingbong]

Actually the enormous burden of pension obligations imposed by UAW over the years has been killing the US automakers, in the form of reduced competitiveness in relation to JP automakers. 30% decline in sales in the last quarter just exacerbated the problem. Selling trucks was never a sustainable strategy, and it may be too late, financially speaking, for them to transit to hybrid vehicles. GM, for example, is spending 2 billion a week to keep the door open. With the credit market freezing up, they can't get loans anywhere with its bleak sales outlook. Hell, even GE had to sell its divisions to shore up its balance sheet. That's how bad it is. For the automakers, there's really not much they can do, besides consolidation or liquidation. When the automakers eventually file for bankruptcy, the resulting hundreds and billions of pension obligation over the years will fall on taxpayers. In sum, the union and the shortsightedness of their business practice are what killed the automakers.

Funny how Union pensions are what's causing the problem...

and not Outrageous Executive salaries, or failed R&D expenditures, or over saturation of supply, or lack of Quality Control...

Ask a normal consumer, American car companies have been making shit boxes for about 30 years now. On top of poor quality product, they haven't had up to date design teams to make more of what the kids want these days. You add that to the fact the Americans aren't buying cars right now (even Toyota and Honda are taking earnings hits in the last quarter) and you have your problem.

but yeah, sure, it's definitely the people that actually did the work wanting a proper retirement that caused the problems. Sorry if I don't buy that line.