Global Warming

[zoobernut]

I know they switch every so often (few hundred thousand years?) but what's the significance of switch effecting us?

During the switching period the atmosphere is very weak and the Earth is bombarded by magnitudes more ions and radiation and particles from space. Also the switching of the poles will completely mess with most of the technology we use, almost all electronics will have issues. Think about all the havoc created when Earth is hit by a large solar flare and then multiply it by a bunch.

[Woozie]

I know they switch every so often (few hundred thousand years?) but what's the significance of switch effecting us?

Well, it *could* expose us to a huge amount of solar radiation, but no one knows for sure how much of a threat this is. The poles have supposedly switched multiple times before but never caused any mass extinctions.

However, it would cause mass power outtages, mess up things like cellphones, TVs, computers, etc. So even if it doesn't kill us, it could have a dramatic effect on society.

[zoobernut]

There was an interesting documentary on Discovery about the switching of the poles thing and they were taking core samples of the earth and during their investigation it seemed like there were drastic weather pattern changes and large scale weather events that seemed to correlate to the switching of the poles.

[Woozie]

There was an interesting documentary on Discovery about the switching of the poles thing and they were taking core samples of the earth and during their investigation it seemed like there were drastic weather pattern changes and large scale weather events that seemed to correlate to the switching of the poles.

Hmm, now that I think about it, I saw something like that on the History channel once, but I can't remember exactly what they said about it.

[zoobernut]

One thing about the magnetic poles switching is that during the switch which happens over the course of a couple hundred to a couple thousand years the magnetic field of the earth diminishes slowly until it is almost non existent. Which means that the Earth for a short period of time would have virtually no magnetosphere protecting it from solar winds.

The show I am talking about Woozie looked at several areas but the one in particular I can remember was a bay in Alaska where there was a massive mud deposit which meant there was either a flood or a tsunami or some other event that moved a lot of soil all at one time.

[TacoTaru]

Oh cool(?). That sounds a bit more interesting than global warming honestly.

What was the name of the documentary? I'd kinda like to watch it now.

[Neosutra]

To those saying we have very little effect on our planet, and that the earth goes through changes naturally of "hot and cold", do you not think that we are speeding up these thermal shifts via our emissions?

I think everyone here realizes the earth shifts through different thermal states, the question would be just how much emissions it takes to push these climate shifts to happen faster. Maybe my understanding of history is construed, but didnt the first Ice Age happen relatively quickly (by historical standards). What events were said to cause the first ice age?

Also, in a system in equilibrium, small influences have huge impacts. It doesnt take much to tip a balanced scale in one direction.

What about the reports of the international commities stating that global warming was indeed a big deal?

[Valisk]

Global Warming is a business. The earth goes through cycles of Hot and Cold, people are just capitalizing on this hot cycle.

^This

We recently discussed global warming in my Geology class (easiest science requirement course) and my professor said the exact same thing. Over the past 3.4 billion years, the Earth has had hot and cold cycles. It's natural. Whether we are speading up that process or not is up for debate, but I don't think we are speeding up the process hundreds/thousands/millions of years early. It's natural. Going to happen regardless.

[zoobernut]

The Earth has tendencies to stay in cooling periods longer than warming periods. The point of all of this Neo is that it does not matter to the Earth if we are speeding up the process that is as much as we can do. We will not be able to make it more severe or last longer. The Earth has natural mechanisms by which as it warms up it reaches a critical point and will naturally cool down again.

Really at this point Humans are trying to save themselves rather than Earth.

Sorry Taco I do not remember the name of the documentary but there is a ton of info on it if you do a quick google search.

[Neosutra]

The Earth has tendencies to stay in cooling periods longer than warming periods. The point of all of this Neo is that it does not matter to the Earth if we are speeding up the process that is as much as we can do. We will not be able to make it more severe or last longer. The Earth has natural mechanisms by which as it warms up it reaches a critical point and will naturally cool down again.

Really at this point Humans are trying to save themselves rather than Earth.

Sorry Taco I do not remember the name of the documentary but there is a ton of info on it if you do a quick google search.

How does it not matter if we are speeding up the process? And what evidence is there that we are or are not? I see alot of confident posts about how we "have little to no impact" because someone told you that we dont, but little evidence to back either side up.

I really find it hard to believe we have that little impact on a closed system and that so many international climate experts (and the united nations) are somehow biased and so inaccurate in their findings.

Global warming is a business alright, but it is a business on both sides. It is very hard to get clear information when companies that would lose money on climate control issues are putting millions into adds/research designed specifically to say global warming is a fraud.

[Jaybar]

The pollution we emit has a stronger effect on ground level ozone than on the atmosphere itself. That shit is nasty. Just look at L.A. 10 years ago and Philly now.

I also believe in the hot/cold cycles. I'm worried about the Ice Age/Pole Shifts/Nuclear Winter than some hot spells.

[zoobernut]

If something is inevitable how does it matter if we make it happen faster? If the Earth already goes through period warming and cooling, that means this closed system has ways of coping with it how are we effecting its ability to self correct from a warming period?

Like I said it matters but it only matters to the survival of humans as a species. The Earth will continue on its merry way and do its thing and any effect we think we are having on it is a tiny blip with respect to the Earth and its trends which span millions of years.

[tyven]

How does it not matter if we are speeding up the process? And what evidence is there that we are or are not? I see alot of confident posts about how we "have little to no impact" because someone told you that we dont, but little evidence to back either side up.

my meteorology professor claims that humans only contribute about 10% to global warming. i mean idk how legit that is but thats a good case of someone telling me so. i know a lot of factors have to do with land clearing and aerosol releases deteriorating the ozone.

[Neosutra]

Anyone have any links to evidence for this Q.Q. Keep getting posts of "this guy told me this".

Also, it matters a great deal if we speed up the inevitable if the inevitable is a massive global climate change that would change the face of our planet causing billions to die, and we make it happen 100,000 years faster than it should have.

I am really looking for detailed unbiased studies on the impact of our emission rates. Everything I have found so far in my searches have been pretty biased studies on both sides.

[Woozie]

If something is inevitable how does it matter if we make it happen faster?

We're all going to die sooner or later. It's inevitable. So what's the point in eating right, exercising, going to the doctor, or not smoking?

Just because something is inevitable doesn't mean it should be ignored. The sooner these global warming catastrophes (or Ice Ages) occur, the sooner we'll have to deal with the devastating consequences. The longer we can delay it, the happier we'll be.

The fact that humans are insignificant in the grand scheme of things doesn't make me care about human survival any less. As far as I'm concerned, we're incredibly important just because I like being alive. I'll do whatever it takes to continue our existence instead of just saying "Oh we don't matter that much anyways".

[Woozie]

Also, theoretically, the longer we delay these devastating consequences, the more likely we are to have some sort of technological breakthroughs that will allow us to survive whatever it is that comes our way.

[zoobernut]

Anyone have any links to evidence for this Q.Q. Keep getting posts of "this guy told me this".

Also, it matters a great deal if we speed up the inevitable if the inevitable is a massive global climate change that would change the face of our planet causing billions to die, and we make it happen 100,000 years faster than it should have.

I am really looking for detailed unbiased studies on the impact of our emission rates. Everything I have found so far in my searches have been pretty biased studies on both sides.

So you are saying the lives now are more important than the lives then? Or do you think if we can stop speeding it up and it does not happen for another 100,000 years that humans will be extinct by then so it doesn't matter?

Edit: with response to Woozie I agree with you. I merely meant that if we are speeding it up due to our own devices then maybe we should spend some time and energy into how to survive it and how to handle it rather than just trying to avoid it and pretend like it won't happen anyway even if we got rid of all of our influence.

[tyven]

Anyone have any links to evidence for this Q.Q. Keep getting posts of "this guy told me this".

Also, it matters a great deal if we speed up the inevitable if the inevitable is a massive global climate change that would change the face of our planet causing billions to die, and we make it happen 100,000 years faster than it should have.

I am really looking for detailed unbiased studies on the impact of our emission rates. Everything I have found so far in my searches have been pretty biased studies on both sides.

the only thing i can remotely cite, is something i read in my textbook last week, which im going to state horribly since i dont have it in front of me to quote properly. anyway one of the big causes is the temperatures in Antarctica which get so cold they cause special clouds to form which allow chemicals that are harmless to the ozone to sort of hang out on and do damage. as a result the ozone allows in more UV rays which contribute to the global warming.

i promise when i get home i will revisit this to explain it in proper terminology.

[Lujei]

I would nowhere near consider myself an expert on this subject and generally dislike debates of this sort because it's two sides yelling and neither listening (like all debates on the Internet, yes?).
I went to an extra-credit seminar for one of my classes about a year ago and they pretty much said that the influx in temperature has happened so rapidly that in all previous eras it would have taken a few thousand years, minimum, to reach what we have in less than one-hundred. They had some nice graphs, but I don't have access to them at the moment.

[Woozie]

Or do you think if we can stop speeding it up and it does not happen for another 100,000 years that humans will be extinct by then so it doesn't matter?

There's another thing I didn't think of. We could always delay it until WW3 kills us all lol