8 year old kills two men; including his father.

[fren.]

This one didn't happen in Texas.

Ariz. boy, 8, accused of killing 2, including dad

By FELICIA FONSECA – 1 hour ago

ST. JOHNS, Ariz. (AP) — It's a crime that police officers in a small eastern Arizona community can hardly fathom yet have to deal with: an 8-year-old charged in the fatal shootings of his father and another man.

"Who would think an 8-year-old kid could kill two adults?" St. Johns Police Chief Roy Melnick said Friday.

The killings on Wednesday sent shock waves through St. Johns, a community of about 4,000 people. The boy had no disciplinary record at school, and there was no indication he had any problems at home, prosecutors said.

"It was such a tragedy," said the boy's defense attorney, Benjamin Brewer. "You have two people dead; you have an 8-year-old in jail. It tugs at the heart strings. It's a shocker, no doubt about it."

On Friday, a judge determined there was probable cause to show that the boy fatally shot his father, Vincent Romero, 29, and Timothy Romans, 39, of San Carlos, with a .22-caliber rifle. The boy faces two counts of premeditated murder. Under Arizona law, charges can be filed against anyone 8 or older.

Melnick said the boy didn't act on the "spur of the moment," though he didn't elaborate on what the motive might have been.

Melnick said officers arrived at Romero's home within minutes of the shooting Wednesday. They found one victim just outside the front door and the other dead in an upstairs room.

Romans had been renting a room at the Romero house, prosecutors said. Both men were employees of a construction company working at a Salt River Project power plant near St. Johns, which is about 170 miles northeast of Phoenix.

The boy went to a neighbor's house and said he "believed that his father was dead," said Apache County attorney Brad Carlyon.

Melnick said police obtained a confession from the boy, but Brewer said police overreached in questioning the boy without representation from a parent or attorney and did not advise him of his rights.

"They became very accusing early on in the interview," Brewer said. "Two officers with guns at their side, it's very scary for anybody, for sure an 8-year-old kid."

A judge ordered a psychological evaluation of the boy, who was being held at the Apache County juvenile detention center.

Prosecutors aren't sure where the case is headed, Carlyon said.

"There's a ton of factors to be considered and weighed, including the juvenile's age," he said. "The counter balance against that, the acts that he apparently committed."

Carlyon said the boy had no record of complaints with Arizona Child Protective Services.

"He had no record of any kind, not even a disciplinary record at school," he said. "He has never been in trouble before."

City Manager Greg Martin said the community was "saddened" and "shocked."

"Not something that happens very often and hopefully never happens again," he said. "It's been on their minds every since it happened."

FBI statistics show instances of children younger than 11 committing homicides are very rare. According to recent FBI supplementary homicide reports, there were at least three such cases each year in 2003, 2004 and 2005; there were at least 15 in 2002. More recent statistics weren't available, nor were details of the cases.

Earlier this year in Arizona, prosecutors in Cochise County filed first-degree murder charges against a 12-year-old boy accused of killing his mother.

Defense attorney Mike Piccarreta, who is not involved in the latest case, said each case has to be considered on its own merits, but it would be hard for him to comprehend that an 8-year-old has the mental capacity to understand the act of murder and its implications.

"If they actually prosecute the guy, it's a legal minefield," he said. "And, two, society has to make a decision as to whether they want to start using the criminal justice system to deal with 8-year-olds. That doesn't mean you don't have a troubled kid."

Wednesday's homicides were the first in at least four years in the community, where most people know one another, Melnick said. No one else had been killed there since 20 years ago, he said.

Romero had full custody of the child. The boy's biological mother visited St. Johns during the weekend from Mississippi, and returned to Arizona after the shootings, Carlyon said.

Brewer said the boy "seems to be in good spirits.

"He's scared," he said. "He's trying to be tough, but he's scared."

The Associated Press: Ariz. boy, 8, accused of killing 2, including dad

[Kiro]

Double kill~ </UTvoice>

[Chicomagiko]

Double kill~ </UTvoice>

LOL I thought the same as well.

[SephYuyX]

YouTube - 8x Holy Shit up to Wicked Sick (no aimbot!) UT2004
Hohohohoooly Shit

[Mojo]

loooooool

[Kuya]

No record and the kid did this? What could have the father or that other man have done to the kid to cause this? Odd, that's about all i can say.

[Killgannon]

something tells me this will be blamed on video games...

[Khamsin]

I doubt the father did anything wrong, I wouldn't wish that on anybody. Worse, it was premeditated. After he went upstairs to kill one, he waited for the other at the door. Obviously no accident, and not having a concept of murder is a poor excuse. He should have freaked out after killing the first, not waited for and killed the second.

Hope they try him as an adult. Does his state have the death penalty?

[Kiro]

Holy shit an 8 year-old going in and getting lethal injection. LOL.

[Headspace]

Video games, antidepressants, Fox News, etc.

[Khamsin]

They should expedite the process, though, or else his lawyers will drag it out until he's 18. Then again, he probably can't afford good enough lawyers to do that. Even if it takes 5 years of appeals, he'll still be executed as a minor.

[Beckwin]

NO GUNSAFES
NO RESTRICTIONS
NO LICENSES
ASSAULT WEAPONS ONLY

FINAL DESTINATION

[Churchill]

it was funnier the first time

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

I doubt the father did anything wrong, I wouldn't wish that on anybody. Worse, it was premeditated. After he went upstairs to kill one, he waited for the other at the door. Obviously no accident, and not having a concept of murder is a poor excuse. He should have freaked out after killing the first, not waited for and killed the second.

Hope they try him as an adult. Does his state have the death penalty?

Right, because an 8 year old has the wisdom and experience to understand the scope and concept of what he did. He should be rehabilitated and given psychological support, he shouldn't be killed or put in prison for life.


Poor parenting and poor gun safety laws are the reason this happened, the kid is a victim, not a criminal.

[Priran]

clearly he saw this and decided to go for the high score

have they charged him with incest yet?

[Kuya]

clearly he saw this and decided to go for the high score

have they charged him with incest yet?

This reminds me of the 12 year old boy who had sex with a boy 5 years younger than him and was labeled a child molester.

[AlexRuzhyo]

Right, because an 8 year old has the wisdom and experience to understand the scope and concept of what he did. He should be rehabilitated and given psychological support, he shouldn't be killed or put in prison for life.


Poor parenting and poor gun safety laws are the reason this happened, the kid is a victim, not a criminal.

I always hate debates like this. I see too much gray area in everything to pick a side. I always find it easier to shut up but I feel the need for communication right now!

You have to admit he knew to some point what he was doing. I can assume he might know something generic if he doesn't grasp the concept of death. "when you kill someone they never come back" and that morally it is wrong. If it was premeditated he may have used a different weapon. An 8 year old with a knife while someone is sleeping is still as deadly as anyone else.

I can't argue it any further without presuming way too much. I don't know his environment, his moral structure, or any random shit that might pass through an 8-year-old's mind. I don't know if he harbored rage towards his dad or if it was simply "lol daddy has a gun, let's shoot someone!" or "I want to see what this can do". All I really know if children be the cruelest of humans at times.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

I always hate debates like this. I see too much gray area in everything to pick a side. I always find it easier to shut up but I feel the need for communication right now!

You have to admit he knew to some point what he was doing. I can assume he might know something generic if he doesn't grasp the concept of death. "when you kill someone they never come back" and that morally it is wrong. If it was premeditated he may have used a different weapon. An 8 year old with a knife while someone is sleeping is still as deadly as anyone else.

I can't argue it any further without presuming way too much. I don't know his environment, his moral structure, or any random shit that might pass through an 8-year-old's mind. I don't know if he harbored rage towards his dad or if it was simply "lol daddy has a gun, let's shoot someone!" or "I want to see what this can do". All I really know if children be the cruelest of humans at times.

When I was 8 years old I called my neighbor who was my age and black a nigger. Does that mean I'm a racist? No, it means I overheard a word and was impressionable and repeated it. I had no idea of the history and weight behind that word, and I don't think I even called him that because he was black and I knew it was a slur. It was a word I learned and I just used it out loud.

Now obviously repercussions weren't as drastic, but 8 year old kids can absorb media ( which I do not think media is to blame here ) and conversations, maybe even his dad saying he'll kill someone in an offhand remark that is innocent, a phrase all of us use or have used I'm sure.

Knowing his dad had a gun, and absorbing whatever was around him by means of media or social structure he obviously did not have the proper education or support needed to cope with whatever was going through his head that made him do this.

Kids steal cookies from the cookie jar in a premeditated fashion, they don't know if it's right or wrong they just know they want something and there are obstacles and they'll get in trouble for it if the get caught. Does that make an 8 year old a thief? Should they be jailed? Prosecuted as an adult? They had full intent to commit the crime so it must be justified to persecute equally, right?

Kids may be clever creatures but they are not wise nor experienced enough to grasp the complex nature of their actions and they relate to world around them.

Punishing the kid excuses the parent for bad education and sets a bad example for parents overall.

[_chuchu]

LOL I thought the same as well.

Guilty also here

[Lordwafik]

"They became very accusing early on in the interview," Brewer said. "Two officers with guns at their side, it's very scary for anybody, for sure an 8-year-old kid."

Bullshit. The kid shot 2 people with a gun, why would a gun be scary to him ?