Feminists

[Penthesilea]

What if it's nekkid two hand touch mud football?

There would be limitations in the league requiring certain attributes, because i still don't want to see a 300+ linewoman mudwrestling another 300+ defensive endwoman.

[Alleya]

Obviously in today's economy it's quite hard for a family not to have a dual income household, but it just seems to me (IE I have zero factual ability to back this up just observing) that children in this day in age, where they don't have the mom at home breastfeeding until the child weens itself off of it are growing up with more "issues". More acting out, more issues of ADHD stuff like that. I could be horribly off, but it seems we're a much more medicated society than say 30 years ago where the norm was the mom stayed at home.

Yeah...definitely don't say that where social science people can year you.

Like me.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Women being weaker is 10% biological 90% cultural.

(87.52% of statistics made up on spot blah blah)

[Saphirea]

There's more to the military than direct combat roles. I know the Marines stress combat readiness for all personnel (mandatory combat school after basic and regular fitness requirements) but in the other branches there's much more variety and less emphasis on infantry-type combat for all.

I worded my post horribly I believe. I mean theres nothing wrong with say the corpsman (not attached to the Marines) and admin roles and stuff that doesn't involve a combat position. But I'll use this example.

The 2nd Marine Division band was deployed to a more of a green zone. There are males and females in the band obviously. (1st MarDiv band had rotated back already) The band performs in a role of CP security as well as roaming security near the CP and Command as well as providing tactical security during convoys. All Marine band members perform in this role. Say something should happen and that female is called to perform a role where strength / combat readiness was required and couldn't perform it due to not lack of intelligence but physically inability. What happens then?

[Kuya]

In actuality, women are overworked, not only are they also expected to work outside the home, in many cases they also have to work in the house because it seems we still expect women to do "woman things" in the house. Is it really any surprise that women suffer from so many anxiety problems?

[Saphirea]

Yeah...definitely don't say that where social science people can year you.

Like me.

I'm basing this off of my working with middle school and high school aged kids on a weekly basis for over two years. I know this makes me no where close to an expert but it just seems the stay at home ones families seem to have better adjusted children. Less of a hassle, less of a disciplinary problem, less of having to be told multiple times to pay attention.

[Charla]

In actuality, women are overworked, not only are they also expected to work outside the home, in many cases they also have to work in the house because it seems we still expect women to do "woman things" in the house. Is it really any surprise that women suffer from so many anxiety problems?

I would actually say the real problem is that we expect everyone to want to reproduce, which creates the need for someone to "work in the house", but the important part is that someone ends up being overworked.

[Dimmauk]

In actuality, women are overworked, not only are they also expected to work outside the home, in many cases they also have to work in the house because it seems we still expect women to do "woman things" in the house. Is it really any surprise that women suffer from so many anxiety problems?

Yeah, that is why women live longer than men right?

[Neosutra]

Women being weaker is 10% biological 90% cultural.

More than 10% physical superiority (strength) than woman..

But none the less, if women are physically weaker and arguably mentally equal, are they not then inferior to males who are at least mentally equal and physically superior? Playing devil's advocate ofcourse.

But truly, are men and women equal? And I'm not looking for the PC answer. Do the men here TRULY think that women are as capable intellectually or physically as men? Do the women here TRULY think they are?

[Beckwin]

Hopefully some teamwork, but it's a bad situation regardless. But again, I'm not sure the Army/Air Force/Navy has their service bands doing convoys either.

[Kuya]

Yeah, that is why women live longer than men right?

Do you know what anxiety means? Furthermore, what sex/gender do you think is going to take more risks? Men or women? Answer that, and there you go.

[Charla]

I'm basing this off of my working with middle school and high school aged kids on a weekly basis for over two years. I know this makes me no where close to an expert but it just seems the stay at home ones families seem to have better adjusted children. Less of a hassle, less of a disciplinary problem, less of having to be told multiple times to pay attention.

Now are you including single mothers in this comparison? Because it seems at least as likely that a single parent family would lead to those sorts of problems.

[Dimmauk]

Do you know what anxiety means? Furthermore, what sex/gender do you think is going to take more risks? Men or women? Answer that, and there you go.

Men still have to do all the "man jobs" at home. Men have anxiety too, same as women.

Maybe women live longer because they spend more time sitting then men? From now on, I'm going to pee sitting down.

[Saphirea]

More than 10% physical superiority (strength) than woman..

But none the less, if women are physically weaker and arguably mentally equal, are they not then inferior to males who are at least mentally equal, then are not men thus superior? Playing devil's advocate ofcourse.

But truly, are men and women equal? And I'm not looking for the PC answer. Do the men here TRULY think that women are as capable intellectually or physically as men? Do the women here TRULY think they are?

I work in an office of 16 with 9 females and 7 males, except for the scheduler (who is a male) we're all network / network security engineers. It's actually cool to watch the problem solving techniques used. It's very different actually and it's kind of cool to see how the differences work. We're all expected to pull the same weight and as one of the seniors here who writes the quarterly employee reviews... I know the 3 JR engineers and the 2 mid levels all make the exact same regardless of male / female.
I don't know what all the SR's make though we keep that kind of secret because some of us have some upper level certifications, but I mean one of the F SR has to be doing well, I mean she's driving a '08 vette and has a GORGEOUS house. So she has to be doing better than I am, I know she has more certifiacations than I do.

I don't see a difference is what I was getting at.

[Neosutra]

Do you think it was harder for those women to get those jobs than it was for you too?

[Beckwin]

More than 10% physical superiority (strength) than woman..

But none the less, if women are physically weaker and arguably mentally equal, are they not then inferior to males who are at least mentally equal, then are not men thus superior? Playing devil's advocate ofcourse.

But truly, are men and women equal? And I'm not looking for the PC answer. Do the men here TRULY think that women are as capable intellectually or physically as men? Do the women here TRULY think they are?

In general, I believe I've read that women have reaction time advantages and a greater ability to empathize. Physically, iirc, they may have greater natural flexibility. They also of course have the ability to carry and bear children. As far as academics goes, there are general inclinations for the sexes but it's so hard to make a physiological conclusion because I think a lot of it is influenced by institutionalized gender roles/stereotypes (hard sciences are for men, social sciences are for women).

But the thing is, we only have generalities, and not absolutes, to work with. There will always be exceptions. In your OP you basically referred to AA, which I won't defend as flawless in executions but at the same time I think the necessity still exists to prevent qualified people from falling victim to gender/race stereotypes. I mean, you've assumed that women and minorities are generally inferior in your field, which could lead to a hiring bias, conscious or not. Saphirea has expressed how women cannot perform the combat duties of men, but surely there are exceptions where some women can match or outperform some men (shit, Michelle Rodriguez's acting career has to be based on some shred of reality).

[Maxxthepenguin]

More than 10% physical superiority (strength) than woman..

That's not what I meant. I mean the causes of women being physically weaker are 10% biological 90% cultural. Women obviously have enormous strength potential and can easily surpass most men's strength.

[fantasticdan]

Are there any good/recent statistics showing the wage gap between men/women in the same positions?

[Elesirdur]

Don't forget that "feminism" isn't this monolithic ideologue to which all persons who are "feminists" ascribe to. There are many schools of though in addition to a few historical "waves" comprising of an larger set of overriding feminist concepts. Throughout those three historical waves a lot has changed. From my neophyte understanding the West is currently in a post-Third Wave of feminism that lacks the binding force of an central ideological theme as the previous three waves have. Because of this, there are many sub-sets of feminism calling for many different things to happen in many different ways.

Labelling all feminists as Feminazis is like calling all Muslims terrorists. They represent a fraction of people who self-identify as feminists but because of their often hateful and destructive behaviour they garner a great deal of attention. They can be a source of great shame to members of that community for giving a greater movement a bad rap.

From the third wave onwards gender identify has become increasingly a part of feminism. Some seek to remove gender or degender society - particularly in the legal realm where this has been achieved to a certain degree (ie. cannot discriminated in the workplace based on gender) - whereas some call for a heightened awareness of how the genders are different and how to better manage and thrive using those differences. I find it highly unlikely, though not impossible, that gender will one day be removed from our social discourse. While the law and social mores may require all persons to be treated equally and justly, that does not mean that gender differences are an irreconcilable with equality. This is where my own personal beliefs lie and a lot of the young women and men I know feel similarly.

However, as a bit of a case study I have a friend who feels quite differently. She is by all factors a Canadian, she even identifies herself as a Canadian despite her last name being Lee and being of Chinese ancestry and, as far as she knows, "pure" Asian not having any ancestors marrying outside of the Asian diaspora. Despite the fact that she is 5th generation Canadian, she frequently encounters people who ask her questions like "so, how long have you been living in Canada" or comments on how well she speaks English. (Not to mention other Chinese-Canadians who are much more recent immigrants or who have not integrated into larger Canadian society who just start talking to her in Cantonese expecting her to know it because of her ancestry) By virtue of the way she has been treated in parts of Canada, and being both a woman an a "visible minority", her feminist views are much more on the side of needing laws and regulations to ensure that woman get a leg up to compensate for the social disadvantages they face on a daily basis. I have found our friendship challenged in the past because of her vitriolic discussions on gender and feminism of which I frankly found offensive because of their lack of, what I preceived, egalitarianism and equality. Her views are not about equality but about raising the status of women through unequal programs and ideas that directly exclude men. She's also about the sweetest most friendly person I've ever known and is no misanthrope or misandrist but she's got some pretty first-wave views on feminism. The point of that little annecdote is to show how people from similar social backgrounds but with different expereinces can come to very diffent conclusions about how to achieve ideological goals.

[Neosutra]

Identifying a few women that can outperform a man in any given situation is not a valid premis for stating that on average, women are physically inferior to males. Giving examples of women that performed the duties of a male doesnt resolve the conflict of direct biological strengths and weaknesses.

I dont think it is insulting to state that women are physically inferior to males either, as they are built for different functions.

And if you are going to use the extremes for females for your standards, compare them to the extremes for males, not the average joe.

As for the military analogy, people in the combat branches appreciate and understand the need for support branches. You cant run a war w/o beans and bullets. However it does add to frustration when 40% of the women in your unit get pregnant 1 week after getting their deployment orders. Harsher conditions and standards are applied to those sacrificing their bodies and time and sometimes life for the combat missions, only to see one side being paid equally as well and promoted equally while sharing little of the danger.