Feminists

[Beckwin]

also tits are pretty superior, and those are a physical attribute

[Kaelia]

also tits are pretty superior, and those are a physical attribute

Judging by Penth's avatar, the female ass is also pretty superior. I'm a straight female and yet I still can't stop staring. That's power.

[Beckwin]

and by that I mean lactating, which provides a still unparalleled nutritional source for infants.

[Penthesilea]

Greater resistance to pain and greater resistance against genetic diseases are two well known examples.

1) Pain tolerance is greater in males
2) Genetic diseases being different in males vs females only comes down to X vs Y chromosomes, otherwise they're all fairly equal.

My population genetics is poor, sorry or I'd cite some papers or something or other.

[Penthesilea]

greater flexibility for one.

Oh you mean like rheumatoid arthritis?

Citing randomly doesn't mean much now does it?

Flexibility comes from "weakness" if you want to be accurate.

[Beckwin]

but of course nothing related to childbearing makes it to the olympics so obviously it isn't a type of physical strength that females have!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Beckwin]

so you're saying flexibility isn't useful? just because it doesn't help you pick up rocks?

it's played out but

"shit is situational"

[kuronosan]

Can you show me the research that proved women were more intelligent, more intuitive, and more perceptive?

I can show you some sources, whether you can consider them reliable or not is up to you:

Welcome to the Relationship Institute

Women in Logistics | Air Force Journal of Logistics | Find Articles at BNET

University of Helsinki | Science & research

Greater resistance to pain and greater resistance against genetic diseases are two well known examples.

Genetically, women have lower resistance to pain due to lower levels of adrenaline... how they get through natural childbirth is one of those many mysteries. Men probably couldn't stomach or bear it without drugs. Also, many genetic diseases specifically target the male chromosome, which is why they seem to have greater genetic resistance. Unfortunately, it's also untrue. Females are more susceptible to cancer than men. Cancer is one hell of a genetic disease, and while everyone has cancer at some point (some systems are better at eliminating it than others) it tends to be much more destructive in females.

[Penthesilea]

I'm not saying it's not useful, I'm saying that it's caused by "weakness" thus they're still inferior. Their tendons and ligaments are just the same as men, it's just that men's muscles tend to be stronger (again, back to the genetic make up) and as such reduce their flexibility.

Gonna go take a shower and revel in my masculinity.

[Kuya]

2) Genetic diseases being different in males vs females only comes down to X vs Y chromosomes, otherwise they're all fairly equal.

So women don't have a genetic advantage when it comes to genetic diseases because they have XX and not XY? How is that not a physical superiority?

1) Pain tolerance is greater in males

Looking back, the tolerance of pain is probably more social than physical, but that doesn't explain why men tolerate pain more.

I'm not saying it's not useful, I'm saying that it's caused by "weakness" thus they're still inferior. Their tendons and ligaments are just the same as men, it's just that men's muscles tend to be stronger (again, back to the genetic make up) and as such reduce their flexibility.

Apparently, you understood nothing of the situational importance of this "superiority" you're so proudly professing. How you ever heard the phrase "double edged sword"?

[kuronosan]

I'm not saying it's not useful, I'm saying that it's caused by "weakness" thus they're still inferior. Their tendons and ligaments are just the same as men, it's just that men's muscles tend to be stronger (again, back to the genetic make up) and as such reduce their flexibility.

Gonna go take a shower and revel in my masculinity.

Strength of muscle has nothing to do with genetic makeup. Male muscles tend to have more mass and develop quicker because testosterone synthesizes protein so quickly - since muscles eat protein for breakfast to develop this is why Men tend to have bigger muscles.

Stronger muscles aren't the reason why men have reduced flexibility. Larger muscle mass is. Slap more muscle mass on a woman and she won't be flexible either. Also, stretching is what yields the most flexibility. Besides this, genetically, if a woman were to have more muscle mass say in the abdominal area and the pelvis didn't separate during birth, they would shoot the child across the room when giving birth. The female frame has to be flexible.

So women don't have a genetic advantage when it comes to genetic diseases because they have XX and not XY? How is that not a physical superiority? Looking back, the tolerance of pain is probably more social than physical, but that doesn't explain why men tolerate pain more.

Social stigma.

[Beckwin]

umm, I think it has more to do with bone structure than muscle weakness, and maybe where weight (excess) tends to be carried. male gymnasts and whatnot are buff as hell yet can get pretty flexible, but I think women have some natural advantages when it comes to doing the splits and more extreme spinal curvatures.

[kuronosan]

umm, I think it has more to do with bone structure than muscle weakness, and maybe where weight (excess) tends to be carried. male gymnasts and whatnot are buff as hell yet can get pretty flexible, but I think women have some natural advantages when it comes to doing the splits and more extreme spinal curvatures.

The female spinal column is designed to be more curved, which is why women are more flexible at the hip. Again, physiologically, this is designed to aid childbirth.

[Beckwin]

so I'm correct in saying that females have a flexibility advantage in a way independent of muscle mass?

[Kuya]

I'm sort of dumbfounded by this; let me pass it up again. Did you just say that flexibility is "weakness" because it is caused by not having larger muscle mass? Explain this in great detail. (not referring to Beckwin)

[kuronosan]

so I'm correct in saying that females have a flexibility advantage in a way independent of muscle mass?

Yes.

[Maguspk]

The mean, min, and max of men's strength/fitness are far superior to women's. Keep quoting 'well I know this one girl that can kick a dudes ass' to support your case and you will only look foolish. Men are physically tougher, this isnt up for debate. Isolating one extreme case and stating how she is above the mean does nothing for your premis unless you compare it to the extreme male case.

And a male dancer is a hell of alot stronger than a female dancer (to address the example you quoted).

Congratulations you missed the point! The point is, making a statement about men being physically superior to women is foolish because the variances are much larger from person to person than they are from sex to sex. So making a case that men are stronger than women on the whole can be valid but it doesn't mean it's sound or in any way, shape or form, reasonable.

If you really want to get into this, you can consider things like the fact that women worldwide tend to outlive men by a good 5-10 years. Men with all their testosterone and raging male hormones are more likely than women to do retarded reckless things and get themselves killed. That's technically a physical issue. Those same sex hormones also lead to higher bad cholesterol, while estrogen lowers bad cholesterol. (More men die from things such as heart disease/stroke, and the onset of these types of conditions typically appear earlier in men than in women.) I would say that's just as easy as a generalization to make as the fact that men are physically stronger than women.

lol. The life expectancy difference is actually due to men working outside the home or in generally more physically taxing environments than women. The result is that men tend to exhaust their life span more quickly than women do, the gap has actually been closing ever since the women's rights movement since women are not working outside the home in more demanding environments. (Not to say being a stay at home mom isn't demanding but having to go out to work and in particular perform more serious physical labor on a daily basis which women have increasingly become more present in, is the reason life expectancies go down)

Seriously though, it's not because men are "stupid" and go do "stupid things".

[fantasticdan]

If you really want to get into this, you can consider things like the fact that women worldwide tend to outlive men by a good 5-10 years. Men with all their testosterone and raging male hormones are more likely than women to do retarded reckless things and get themselves killed. That's technically a physical issue. Those same sex hormones also lead to higher bad cholesterol, while estrogen lowers bad cholesterol. (More men die from things such as heart disease/stroke, and the onset of these types of conditions typically appear earlier in men than in women.) I would say that's just as easy as a generalization to make as the fact that men are physically stronger than women.

I would think the lower average life spans of males are more to due with unhealthy lifestyle choices, like higher rates of tobacco/alcohol/drug use, poorer diet, more physical labor, etc. than anything inherent. I agree using "physically superior" to refer to size/strength/etc is bad wording, and I wouldn't phrase it like that, but in the context it was used in this thread, I think we all knew what people meant.

And are you sure about the cholesterol thing and testosterone/estrogen? I just researched it a bit, and I think you have it backwards. According to everything I can see, both high estrogen and low testosterone levels are associated with high bad cholesterol levels in men, and vice versa.

so I'm correct in saying that females have a flexibility advantage in a way independent of muscle mass?

Flexibility advantage at spreading legs, well yeah.

[kuronosan]

If you want to get technical women have to be able to spread their legs wider - it aids conception and obviously aids in birth. Think of how much birthing would hurt if their legs were tight and unmovable.

[Seraph]

There are some pretty epic chips on shoulders in this thread. With that being said...

The people who seem to be the most 'socially adjusted' that I encounter are the ones who understand that men and women are different, and don't really give a shit. I try to treat everyone with respect. If someone gets offended for something I do, so what? You can't please everyone all the time. In contrast to sensitivity training, I often suggest 'durability training' to people who like to get offended by everything. That's for a different topic though.

The whole point isn't which sex is 'better', it's the concept that men and women (usually) complement each other very well in both physical and mental attributes. Men and women are different, get over it. That doesn't mean that you can't respect them both equally.

People have a hard time grasping 'equality' when the things they are comparing aren't identical, and this is definately the case here. Half of this issue is probably caused by people screaming their heads off for equal treatment causing others to get either annoyed or numb to the issue.

Blah blah blah, life is what you make it, etc.