Non-US Remembrance Day

[ZarakiKujata]

Just to chime in, but guartz you are wrong in regards to Jewish influence. First off, American Jews as such were largely more vested in Russia and its allies losing because of the pogroms they had inflicted on the Jewish population within Russia. If anything American Jews were initially more vested in a German victory and by extension an Ottoman one based on that fact; German Jews had fonder memories of their homeland and Russian Jews wanted the czar to be fucked.

There's something else important in the equation, the Balfour declaration. Britain knew that they could mobilize American Jewish support to pressure their government with it and thereby negate any bad feelings towards their side due to Russia. In fact the Germans knew this too and considered passing their own version of the Balfour Declaration.

So you are wrong in regards to the specifics of Jewish pressure to get into WW1, certainly they had an effect on our getting into the war but saying its due to wanting the collapse of the Ottoman Empire for what I assume to be Zionist reasons is bullshit.

Also, lol at socialists wanting Bismarck out of the way? The guy had been dead for 16 years at the onset of the war. Some mighty fine schooling you have there boy.

[Khamsin]

Its inevitable because shit happens and any nation that stands long enough will eventually be attacked and need a military capable of fending off threats (and making a few in return).

Had the Ottoman Empire not fallen, and the Nazi regime of Germany not risen, we'd still have conflict today such as the middle east and tensions with China/Russia in the last 20-30 years.

[Kuya]

Its inevitable because shit happens and any nation that stands long enough will eventually be attacked and need a military capable of fending off threats (and making a few in return).

Had the Ottoman Empire not fallen, and the Nazi regime of Germany not risen, we'd still have conflict today such as the middle east and tensions with China/Russia in the last 20-30 years.

That's not really the point. The US had itself set up well enough to have a perpetually increasing military body, but having a military to defend yourself does not necessarily mean that this military body will grow to have its own interests.

Especially when the military is only used in the case of an invasion, so it's not really an argument about the potential inevitableness of military aggression being brought down upon you and your forced reaction to it.

[guartz]

Also, lol at socialists wanting Bismarck out of the way? The guy had been dead for 16 years at the onset of the war. Some mighty fine schooling you have there boy.

It's a weird subject. What you need to understand was Lenin was deathly afraid of any legitimate claim on his rule, hence the execution of the Tsar and hostilities towards germany. Nicholas had his own disputes with germany, and germany saw fit to support socialism to get Russia out of war. America was supporting the russian Tsar, for the war efforts, so Lenin needed Wilson to enter the war to defeat germany so socialist revolution could be left unmolested. Lenin didn't see fit to start hostilities with America because there was a huge faction in U.S backing the revolution.

That conflict was there once Bismarck took offices and land in Russia, where he worked against socialism. So I'm not mistaken there. But it would have made more sense I suppose if I said germany instead of Bismarck.

Also, are you suggesting that the Ottoman Empire wasn't in clear opposition of israeli settlers? Weitzman knew this, the Balflour Deceleration happened when the Ottoman Empire was essentially out of the question. I mean, could the independent jewish state even be fathomable if the Ottoman empire didn't collapse?!

[ZarakiKujata]

The Ottoman Empire would've collapsed with or without WWI and everyone knew it, it wasn't called the sick man of Europe without reason for the prior century. Also, the fact that GERMANY was considering a Balfour declaration document of its own speaks to this as well. So while I'm not suggesting that the Ottomans weren't in clear opposition to Zionism, I am saying that the Ottomans were largely irrelevant at this point since Jews were fucking in Palestine already and American Jews collectively harbored more ill-will to the Allies initially then towards the German/Ottoman side.

Considering, that as soon as the allies, particularly America, defeated Germany they headed into Russia to help the "white Russians" beat Lenin, I think your point about Lenin wanting them to enter the war is retarded. The best way for Lenin's revolution to remain unmolested in Russia was to maintain the status quo of the war where it was a stalemate that progressively was going towards Germany's favor now that the Russian front was closed. With the war progressively going towards Germany's favor it meant that they likely would've won and being preoccupied with occupation/treaties in Western Europe would've further left Lenin unmolested in Russia. Honestly, you seem to be fucking completely butchering the timeline to serve your retarded ridiculous argument. Go read a history textbook, or Oil! by Upton Sinclair if you want to learn about American sentiments for what was going on in Russia rather then coming up with this bullshit.

[Kiro]

So this is what college education does to people!

I AM THOROUGHLY DISGUSTED! :<

[guartz]

The Ottoman Empire would've collapsed with or without WWI and everyone knew it, it wasn't called the sick man of Europe without reason for the prior century. Also, the fact that GERMANY was considering a Balfour declaration document of its own speaks to this as well. So while I'm not suggesting that the Ottomans weren't in clear opposition to Zionism, I am saying that the Ottomans were largely irrelevant at this point since Jews were fucking in Palestine already and American Jews collectively harbored more ill-will to the Allies initially then towards the German/Ottoman side.

Considering, that as soon as the allies, particularly America, defeated Germany they headed into Russia to help the "white Russians" beat Lenin, I think your point about Lenin wanting them to enter the war is retarded. The best way for Lenin's revolution to remain unmolested in Russia was to maintain the status quo of the war where it was a stalemate that progressively was going towards Germany's favor now that the Russian front was closed. With the war progressively going towards Germany's favor it meant that they likely would've won and being preoccupied with occupation/treaties in Western Europe would've further left Lenin unmolested in Russia. Honestly, you seem to be fucking completely butchering the timeline to serve your retarded ridiculous argument. Go read a history textbook, or Oil! by Upton Sinclair if you want to learn about American sentiments for what was going on in Russia rather then coming up with this bullshit.

You are wrong about Lenin. He too was worried about german advances further east, that's why he signed treaty of brest-bitovisky. Which he undoubtedly didn't want to keep, entirely possible if germany lost. Not only that he was afraid of german interference in russian politics, hence why he immediately created secret service. Lenin was paranoid fuck and his actions reflected that. He wanted United States to annex germany. Furthermore, he was accused of being a german spy, a reputation he wanted to disprove and he was anti-war from the getgo, that is, he wanted ww1 over as soon as possible. As far as wilson's polar bear expedition, it was a half-ass attempt to secure some resources.


As far as the ottomans, since the germans couldn't keep their promise of support because U.S involvement, the arab uprising was extremely successful with british support. This is why the brits were able to redraw the maps in such a manner, which would never have happened, if the ottoman empire dissolved by itself.

[Churchill]

So what you're saying is, the most spineless President in history laid the groundwork for pretty much all of our present day problems.

Now...what was that bank called that Wilson let take the power to do something away from the people that this document says were supposed to be the only ones who did that certain thing because the authors of that document had already found out the dangers of allowing this type of bank to do what it was that the people specified were supposed to be doing.

Also, in agreement with Guartz on not entering WWI. It should have been left to Europe to fight, and we should have traded with everyone and made a huge profit that way. If we didn't try to take over Britain's spot as the largest Empire on Earth, we'd be able to laugh at Europe and the rest of the world's silly wars...all the while prospering from selling shit and collecting their lewt.