Einherjar: tips for a new LS

[Neosutra]

Having at least one pld there for safety/add control/pulling (better durability) cant hurt, but to each their own.

[Darkmoon]

We only sleep mobs if its a must.

4 Melee pts fighting thier own mob, + a BRD in each party pulling a Mob. Thats 8 mobs each set of 12 that are ready at thier parties. So unless the puller gets the whole room in one pull, we dont AoE Sleep anything.

we do have 1 SCH as a backup also.

[Neosutra]

4 melee parties fighting + 4 brds pulling? The brds dont sleep the ones they pull while the melees kill theirs?

You're acting like multi-targeting is something new. The fact is that unless you are pulling just enough for your melees to target you will have excess adds that need to be slept and delt with for the minute or two is takes to deal with the current target. And pulling more is "generally" better on down time, but that really is based on mob.

[Meat]

i'm curious how pld less shells deal with chairdude, who keeps him at bay?

[Valisk]

i'm curious how pld less shells deal with chairdude, who keeps him at bay?

A war and rdm for us I believe.

[Arthars]

Why do people keep bringing PLD's to einherjar (except for Odin) is mind boggling to me...

I dunno what you are talking about.

I usually have 1-2 PLDs because they can be DD too, and in wing 3 if i face the "chairman", PLD can help hold it while others kill the demons.

And in DDing mode, PLD can still do good vorpal blades, atonement on bosses, and cure people

if your group dont have a good PLD, that doesnt mean all PLD shouldnt be in PT except for odin

Im sure the 1-2 PLD i have in my group is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> than some of your DDs you have

[wop]

I dunno what you are talking about.

I usually have 1-2 PLDs because they can be DD too, and in wing 3 if i face the "chairman", PLD can help hold it while others kill the demons.

And in DDing mode, PLD can still do good vorpal blades, atonement on bosses, and cure people

if your group dont have a good PLD, that doesnt mean all PLD shouldnt be in PT except for odin

Im sure the 1-2 PLD i have in my group is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> than some of your DDs you have

We get our shit done without any PLD's and I don't see why we should follow your way. End results are the same for you and me, we both have multiple Odin kills, clearing T3 with ease.

My group have excellent PLD's, some of the best on servers. It's just not our style to bring them into T1/2/3.

Your logic of they can cure and DD fails, our DD will DD, and our mages will cure. That's their job. We bring in 3-4 ghorns in every run, MP is never an issue.

[Diomer]

Best advice I can give is don't give up and try not to get too discouraged by losses. We had alot of attendance issues before we cleared Wing 2 and would go in expecting to lose most of the time but eventually we got up to a solid 30ish and even sometimes over the limit of 36 especially after our first Odin. Working towards our fourth now with one fluke loss since advancing to Wing 3. Eventually, you'll get in a groove. 3 BRD Rotation for the boss is all we do as far as rotating BRDs. I come PLD/NIN and pull for T2 + T3 and PLD/RDM for T1 in case its the Marid and I just diaga and kite the 6 Djiggas - It works out well, I guess it's doable without a PLD like Wop's group but for just starting out, I'd say bring a PLD. Definately bring at least 1 RDM/DRK for Chainstun too. We use single assist on everything and don't have any trouble but it depends on your group I guess. There's different ways to handle it, just find which works best for your group.

[bercus]

Why so grumpy about what others say?

I don´t see Arthar saying you should follow his way. He is responding to what you said. You made it sound that taking Paladin to Einherjar Tier 1-3 is kind of stupid according to your post. I agree to both though.

A (as ONE) Paladin can be a good addition to most Tiers. Yes Mages Cure and yes normal DDs DD, we are however also taking ONE Paladin to our runs and it is working for our gimp Linkshell. There are a few bosses a PLD is better then anything else.

At the same time I agree that some Templates of Einherjar do not need a PLD at all. At the end one Paladin is never wrong especially for a LS that has not done many Einherjars. Flash, Shield Bash, Cure, DDing, during boss zergs, for us taking a Paladin works wonderfull.

We bring in 3-4 ghorns in every run

Good for you, maybe think about options for 95% of other Linkshells doing Einherjar.I doubt the original poster has this option. If you are successful without Paladins, super, great. You have a lot of top equipped people.

As a serious suggestion, if you have a TOP, good Paladin available, bring him, if he/she is smart and knows what to do on each waves and boss it is helpfull. But don´t think about taking 3-4 Paladins unless they have no better jobs available.

Best advice I can give is don't give up and try not to get too discouraged by losses.

I second that. You will get better every time you do it. We timed on Hydra, she felt to ground the same second we got warped out >.<. This is helping you find out yourself how to get better each run, taking off seconds here and there for next run.

[pchan]

We get our shit done without any PLD's and I don't see why we should follow your way. End results are the same for you and me, we both have multiple Odin kills, clearing T3 with ease.

We use a pld as puller and win 100% of the wings.

We bring in 3-4 ghorns in every run, MP is never an issue.

We bring 0 Ghorns, we bring good DDs instead. Any group if 30+ people can clear all chambers np.

[wop]

By bringing good DD's, you mean your PUP instead of my purple WAR's or apoc DRK's right?

Either way, this argument is pointless. We all have our own ways of attempting this, and it both works.

[Jhun]

Either way, this argument is pointless. We all have our own ways of attempting this, and it both works.

This and I used to pull on RDM/whm with no movement speed equipment untill I got my character back and it worked fine, for now I go as PLD/blm, and it's a good way to pull chunk of mobs and maintain hate off the mages.

Whether it's RDM or a PLD puller it's still working good for us (19-25mins Chamber 3 is hot), sometimes I even go as BRD/whm.

[pchan]

By bringing good DD's, you mean your PUP instead of my purple WAR's or apoc DRK's right?

You bring good DD. If you have BLM and PUP and bring BLM on tier3 your are retarded.

[Darkmoon]

By bringing good DD's, you mean your PUP instead of my purple WAR's or apoc DRK's right?

Either way, this argument is pointless. We all have our own ways of attempting this, and it both works.

I didn't think this was an arugment, this is a thread about helping a new LS do einherjar.

Most likly the LSs in question arent packing multi relics. If they were, I doubt they would be asking for help as they would be able to form thier own strats and setups that work for them.

You play to the strength of your shell in this event and it helps. This thread isn't telling people "This is the only way", its telling people what our shells do so that they can form a strat that works for them.

Some people will use PLDs, some because they feel that it is helpful, some because people in thier shell have no other viable job choice. Some wont. Some will have 5-10 relics to just destroy things, others will have none.

Honestly from my experience, any group of 33 competent people with a decent setup can clear any chamber, you dont have to have godly gear on everyone.

Do you need PLDs? no
Can you use PLDs? yes



@Neo.

Sorry my wording was bad before. When I said we dont sleep mobs, I mean the BRD that pulls the extra is holding thier mob for the 30-45 seconds they sleep it or what have you, i just meant we dont ever plan to mass sleep mobs, only do that if we have a massive link. Since we spread out, pulling all the mobs to one spot and mass sleeping takes a lot more time since parties have to run to the area that all the mobs are at, wake it, get hate and then run back.

We try to have the 1 PLD pull the clump, and pull off of him as he runs past a few parties. Usualy this gets all the mobs off him, and then we can have the BRDs pluck the rest the mobs that usualy wont be linking.

Its not an exact thing, some times I'll pull a clump of 3 mobs to my party and Lullby one, and have WHM repose the other , or a RDM sleep the other. So basically we have 5~ pullers that have freedom to make pulls as they feel they need it, and are trusted not to make bad pulls. It works really well for us.

[Neosutra]

Interesting tactic. Might try it out. Ive always pulled as many as I can and kept them slept while our multi-targeters pick them off. We double up our targeters (4 melee parties with 2 melee assists and rotating brds between the parties). My only concern with breaking them up further is large area of effect TP moves going off around the same time. I guess if you spread them out enough that isnt a problem, but all mob dependent.

[KoD]

*remove'd Section i dnt want to cause any Drama here ^^;

I Find pld very usefull In in Einga tbh, Specaily for crowed Controlle, and its Also easyer on Melee's!
Yes Pld doesnt hold Hate on the "Normal Mobs" But they great for getting assisting Next Mob!! PLD losse's Hate and go gets the Next Mob, Speeding up the move'ing to Next Mob!!
And Alot of Time's i Find PLDs on Mega boss Can Save a Few Seconds! Specaily agaist Sertain Mega Boss's Where they get an extream Def Bonus to the front, And Lower Def @ the Back, Decent pld can hold hate for @least 1min Where Melee's can Deal good bit more dmg than have'ing to keep move'ing away from Front so they can Deal More dmg!

[Judai]

My LS doesn't bring any PLDs anymore and I don't see a major need to do so. My WARs voke and hold hate on the adds. My RDMs and the few BLMs I bring to every wave focus on Sleeping the few extras we have and can handle the mob beating on them for 2s if that happens. (I take some BLMs to every wave to focus on sleeping)

I make the first pull every wing on WAR. Just need people to be smart and sleep shit.(actually keeps people awake at the start and sleeping faster so I don't get owned and never have been)

I hold the Chair guy on WAR. He uses draw-in and plenty of ga3 so it's not like holding it on PLD was perfect. I have a WHM and RDM follow me and try to keep me up, if I happen to die, another WAr comes out and holds it. It's not perfect and it can be messy for the holders but it was pretty much the same when I came on PLD before. Any other boss is CSS/BRD Zerg, so PLD won't hold hate for even 20s and the boss is generally dead withing 1m30s or less anyways.

My "DD PLD" Set is probably perfect but I would never in my life try to say my DD PLD could out perform my own WAR. I personally find and enjoy going on my WAR over my PLD, it's alot easier and instead of my "trying" to hold hate on mobs I pick on PLD, I have 3-4 WARs voking and rampaging and holding hate even better on each mob. I also voke and start on the next mob while the mob before was still alive. Depending on how fast we kill, I sometimes switch mobs as soon as 75% or as low as 10% for the big ones. That way people can start swapping to the new mob or if they die fast, people will be split on two mobs.(yes dual assist would be easier for this but I just do it when we aren't using dual assist)

I see it the same way as I do Dynamis now. Sure, a PLD CAN tank every mob and do some damage but a few WARs can tank everything as well and do alot more damage.

Figure out your own little niches though and make things work for you. Whatever you do that helps or works for your group is great, not every group is the same. Some have better WARs, some have better PLDs, use what works for you.

[Neosutra]

I wasnt implying someone should bring pld to "tank" the mobs. Pld is there for crowd control, oshi situations, fast pulling by someone that can take a hit, and reliability. Maybe 1/10 times you can sit back and go "jesus im glad we had a pld", but that time it really matters. As said before, it is just about trading a little damage for a little more security and fucked up chambers (Logi stops and casts and links all 12 logi at once, etc etc).

[Eliseos]

My group follows Neo's line of thought as far as a PLD goes. As a leader, if we time out or wipe to something stupid, and there is something I could have done about it, I'd like to be prepared for it next time. For instance, when we first started doing bard rotations, I came on a DD job (I would consider my main job to be PLD). We wiped on the Dvergr because we didn't have anyone around to hold him, and ever since then I've been coming on PLD. It's been helpful for our group to have one just in case, and it's saved us from a wipe on more than one occasion.

[Eldelphia]

I should state up front we don't have any relics, kraken drks or BB mnks(yet).
Likely numbers for us are 24-30, we're just about to add Einherjar to our Dynamis pearl and have some who are not interested and other members from the main shell who are interested in Einherjar but couldn't make dyna. Hoping eventually to work with 36. Our pool of players for this should be 40-50 if dynamis is anything to go by.

If we assume 28 players show up, in an ideal world what would you have?

4 merit partys + BLM party?
Number of BRDs/RDMs/CORs desirable?

We've only ever done 3-4 farming runs in the main shell, earned a few ampoules.
And can someone remind me what we should be doing with mules..?