PLD/RDM based primarily on shield?

[Tsuko_Asura]

You have Sentinel up.

To be perfectly honest, I'm a at a loss for conclusion at this point. Dynamis, JoL, Sky triggers; I was already aware that /WAR and, subsequently /RDM worked very well for these things. Looking and hearing about damage on higher caliber mobs, I just don't see how it could possibly be superior to /NIN. Losing ~330 CE per hit is pretty significant, and needing to spam Dispel to regain that sounds extremely counterproductive.

[[Cookies]]

Oops. Wrong one. Guess that wasn't a shield block then. There we go, fixed it.

[Baelorn]

You have Sentinel up.

To be perfectly honest, I'm a at a loss for conclusion at this point. Dynamis, JoL, Sky triggers; I was already aware that /WAR and, subsequently /RDM worked very well for these things. Looking and hearing about damage on higher caliber mobs, I just don't see how it could possibly be superior to /NIN. Losing ~330 CE per hit is pretty significant, and needing to spam Dispel to regain that sounds extremely counterproductive.

Sounds to me like you don't want it to work. >.>;

/RDM is not hard on MP at all. You can get Balladx2 since you don't need to have your Flash timer as low as possible(if you have enough Refresh gear then 1xBallad would be okay too). I tank Campaign NMs as PLD/RDM and have no issues at 74 and I'm missing a lot of the good gear (for Stoneskin).

[Tsuko_Asura]

Sounds to me like you don't want it to work. >.>;

/RDM is not hard on MP at all. You can get Balladx2 since you don't need to have your Flash timer as low as possible(if you have enough Refresh gear then 1xBallad would be okay too). I tank Campaign NMs as PLD/RDM and have no issues at 74 and I'm missing a lot of the good gear (for Stoneskin).

Of course I want it to work, I just don't see how it could.

[Kongolo]

uhmm, does it worth to keep casting stonskin for enmity and protection whenever its up?

[Meat]

You have Sentinel up.

To be perfectly honest, I'm a at a loss for conclusion at this point. Dynamis, JoL, Sky triggers; I was already aware that /WAR and, subsequently /RDM worked very well for these things. Looking and hearing about damage on higher caliber mobs, I just don't see how it could possibly be superior to /NIN. Losing ~330 CE per hit is pretty significant, and needing to spam Dispel to regain that sounds extremely counterproductive.

Then try it out, I\we(remedy) always do \rdm on anything that isn't kihm\timmy\cerb, though i think the latter is entirely possible. Basically on anything that can't 2 shot u, i find that \rdm is better.

[Kurt Cobain]

maybe he meant from the higher % where his attack is kinda weak. This is from a nin/drk perspective with -40% in his mighty strikes mode. I didnt have a phalanx with these hits as well.
[IMG\]http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/448/ffxi20081106070133ri6.png[/IMG]

but when it gets lower, his attack rises drastically. Idc if your rukenshin, any tank is gonna get his for 400+ unblocked crits than lol.

edit: yeah, your right. its sub 20%!

yeah, but the -27% he listed in gear != -40% from your setup, my point is that its never ever EVER going to be "300 average unblocked"

[Tsuko_Asura]

Then try it out, I\we(remedy) always do \rdm on anything that isn't kihm\timmy\cerb, though i think the latter is entirely possible. Basically on anything that can't 2 shot u, i find that \rdm is better.

Its not a matter of being functional, as you could sub Puppetmaster and be functional. Paladin isn't hard to 'make work' in any circumstance at this point. Its just that, from the pen-and-paper standpoint, you're spending more MP for the same/less net CE. If there's some major difference in how it should work and how it actually ends up working, that's fine, but nobody has yet to be able to contribute any such persuasive retort. Thus far all that's come out of this is, "Things hit this hard", "No they don't", "poidh", "/RDM or gtfo".

Not trying to be stubborn, just trying to get a straight, reasonable answer to a question that I can't answer on my own.

[Kohan]

I haven't used much but PLD/RDM is waaaaaay superior to /NIN in terms of hate gain. It's quite ridiculous actually. And yes, it more than makes up for the enmity loss. Obviously the better your support the more you can spam. If you have a Gjallarhorn BRD you can literally just chain spam crap. I usually go Flash > Dispel > Blind > Dispel > Sleep > Dispel > Bind > Dispel and then repeat depending on timers.

Probably shouldnt use PLD/RDM for alot of things unless you have the gear to back it up. Generally its good for fast-hitting/shadow-wiping mobs that you wont keep shadows up for anyways.

That having been said, if you're able to generate MP at a very fast rate (Commodore COR, GjallarBRD, Refresh, Ares Body, Aspir Samba II, whatever you're getting), then you'll probably want more ways to generate hate since you can probably spam Cure III/IV fast, and throwing enfeebles will get you to the enmity cap that much faster. Even then, I don't think non-Aegis PLDs do this.

To the OP, PLD/RDM is the optimal choice for tanking JoL. Its a fight where you should never take a single physical hit because your standing out of melee range while it only casts spells on you. All you are doing is spamming sleep/dispell/flash/blind/bar spells, keeping stoneskin up and curing what little dmg you take from aga's. RDM/PLD is a very good co-tank with PLD/RDM on this fight, just watch out for Astral Flow.

People have given you plenty of well-written statements and personal accounts. I don't know what you're expecting. Your question is very vague and, in spite of that, people have responded surprisingly well. You are not going to get some magical answer that immediately changes your opinion and makes you feel like you've found Jesus in PLD/RDM form.

If you feel the answers aren't satisfactory then try phrasing your wonderment better, otherwise accept what you've been given and--maybe, somehow--try it out yourself.

[[Cookies]]

uhmm, does it worth to keep casting stonskin for enmity and protection whenever its up?

That depends entirely on how much the mob is hitting you for and how good of a Stoneskin set you have. If your getting hit for 150-200 a hit then no, it's not worth it.

However, if your getting hit for lower damage, e.g. 30 or so then it definitely is worth using if you don't have a SCH. Without the enmity loss from taking damage /RDM really is quite awesome.

[Tsuko_Asura]

People have given you plenty of well-written statements and personal accounts. I don't know what you're expecting. Your question is very vague and, in spite of that, people have responded surprisingly well. You are not going to get some magical answer that immediately changes your opinion and makes you feel like you've found Jesus in PLD/RDM form.

If you feel the answers aren't satisfactory then try phrasing your wonderment better, otherwise accept what you've been given and--maybe, somehow--try it out yourself.

Well-written statements and personal accounts of things I could have gone to Wiki about. Obviously something that hits fast enough to make maintaining shadows impossible or something that solely casts magic are going to favor things like /RDM. I knew that, I made it clear that I knew that, and that's all I continue to get.

And I have a hard time believing you read what you quoted. Most of those conflict with each other, or are just flat out irrelevant to my question.

[Amok]

or are just flat out irrelevant to my question.

.....what? Irreverent? Irresponsive?


So yeah, not to be irrelevant or anything XD... but I think that even though most/all people didn't directly answer your question I'm pretty sure they're indicating why PLD/RDM works in certain siatuations and none of them mentioned shield skill.

If PLD/RDM hinged on Aegis then it wouldn't be so widespread, though "yes" I am totally convinced PLD's shield skill plays a significant role in its success in those situations where you take blockable hits. But so does everything else that makes PLD a good tank regardless of sub. Pardon the metaphore, but it's like those jokes about which organ is the most important. You know, first the stomach refuses and the body almost starves, then the lungs refuse to work and the body almost suffocates then it turns out that even the butthole plays a very important role. My point is that yes shield matters in pld/rdm success (where terra isn't better), but so do all other abilities/stats. So I don't think you can compare rdm to pld on a per hit basis and discount reprisal in the same sentence, cus reprisal is like the rectum, it matters.

Your second question regarding RDM + Shield. I really don't know cus I don't have the personal experience, but I expect shield skill to be negligable for RDM tanking on mobs you're referring to. You lose 10% from terra/earth in exchange for genbu's (I'm assuming) and you only gain the ability to block at 87 fewer points of naked skill. I have always understood shield skill to matter a lot for proc rate on high level mobs.

[Kohan]

And I have a hard time believing you read what you quoted. Most of those conflict with each other, or are just flat out irrelevant to my question.

The tales do conflict, and that's exactly why I quoted them. It shows that you've received feedback from different people with varying points of view and opinions, and from that, you should be able to determine whether you want to try this yourself or not.

As mentioned, no one is going to say any one thing that will magically change your mind. You need to take what you have been given and figure out what to do from here.

Of course, you did say you could get well-written statements from FFXIclopedia, so... I don't know. Maybe you really do need someone to spell things out for you.

[Lordwafik]

Of course, you did say you could get well-written statements from FFXIclopedia, so... I don't know. Maybe you really do need someone to spell things out for you.

Like the ones that say you can sleepga the elementals for the SHNM @ Castle Oz?

Like the ones that say you can't silence mobs without ES in dynamis? ROR

[Asdrabael]

I guess what my question is, does the entire practice hinge on the superior shielding capabilities of a Paladin? Or an Aegis, for that matter? Is it possible to make this work for jobs like RDM? If it doesn't, I'm at a loss for how this is possible, because on a hit-per-hit basis, I take significantly less damage than Paladins I've interacted with, unless they're in Hundred-Shield mode because of Reprisal.

Since all the well-written accounts are apparently irrelevent to you, even if they do explain why pld/rdm is getting popular, heres the answers to your questions.

Yes.
No.
No.
You're hit too hard, Paladins you know apparently suck unless you were wearing stuff like full darksteel +1 and they were wearing typical enmity gear with non-capped Phalanx.

[Tonyanjaii]

IMO PLD/NIN is still far superior to PLD/WAR or PLD/NIN when it comes to HNM tanking. Could always maintain your hate by curing other members in your alliance or whoever is on the hate list rather than always curing yourself or trying to spam buffs on the mob to accumulate hate. If you want spam buffs to accumulate hate then you might as well play RDM/NIN where it is more feasible to do so than as PLD/RDM.

[Furionstormrage]

IMO PLD/NIN is still far superior to PLD/WAR or PLD/NIN when it comes to HNM tanking. Could always maintain your hate by curing other members in your alliance or whoever is on the hate list rather than always curing yourself or trying to spam buffs on the mob to accumulate hate. If you want spam buffs to accumulate hate then you might as well play RDM/NIN where it is more feasible to do so than as PLD/RDM.

zing! Did I click on Alla by accident?