Teach me Paladin?

[Norellicus]

I already did, read the thread before smarting off.

My apologies, I overlooked it in the back-and-forth.

[Tonko]

Except the fucking entrance to the instance where the first 5 minutes are all aoe ranged packs... yeah, consecrate totally useless there.

It's not useless, but you don't move them around, which was your original point.

Also useless on the, oh, just EVERY FUCKING FIGHT where you're not on a drake.

None of which you have to move around, and there's only the 6 construct fights before Urom, and the 3 packs before Varos.

Suddenly I have the feeling you're lying about what you have and haven't done.

Tonkor, Proudmoore. Feel free to look me up.

Why the fuck would you stand there and eat damage when you don't have to?

Becuase this method ensures that 0 zombies get through to Gluth. The damage is easily healed through, and offers a much better degree of control vs kiting them all over the place.

Yeah because the adds all come from the exact same spot...

Gatewatcher's 3 packs are pulled back and slightly around the corner to bunch them all up safely and keep the skirmishers from getting behind you. Pull the first one back there, and wait for the rest to come on their timer. Hadronox's trash packs are funneled into a back corner so they have to come through you to get to your healer, instead of running all over the place like you apparently like to do.

Lemme guess, you stand there and eat pounds like a fucktard too?

I don't even know what you were trying to say here.

The achievement. Hence why I said "If you want the achievement."

You can pull an extra 10 Aboms to the center of the room without running silly around the room consecrating all over the place. Your point was that you had to AoE tank on the move, which you don't.

If you get shitty spawn locations on the first half, the *ONLY* way you're getting through the gauntlet in time is if you take the first half all at once, and the 2nd half all at once. You may not realize it, hell, maybe you're playing with the same people all the time and they've learned to cover your weaknesses. But having to wait an extra 2 seconds to consecrate is huge.

Even with shitty locations on the first half, with the kind of dps I run with you can burn through it all to have plenty of time left. I've managed just fine tanking them all, without losing hate, with a 10 second consecrate timer, it's not as huge as you make it out to be.

I just named like half the instances in WotLK and where it's extremely important to be able to move when tanking. The fact you either flat don't know what you're talking about, or are actually choosing to make yourself look like you don't in order to try to win an argument, doesn't mean the places don't exist.

No you didn't. You named one, CoS.

It's about a flat out 2.5% increase in *JUST* HotR damage alone. If that was the ONLY thing it did, it would still be, far and away, the best paladin tanking glyph.

Not to mention, our white damage is 180%ish threat now, it keeps seals up, and it prevents parry-gibbing.

But hey, I'm sure you know better than every other decent paladin tank in the world.

Protip: check my last post before this one, it's a great example of how to realize and admit when you're wrong. Being able to do that will make you one hell of a lot better player.

I'll give the glyph a try, didn't realize that it increased HotR damage.

Top DPS are doing 4-5x as much dps as a prot paladin. The *only* ability a paladin has which has extra threat beyond the natural 280% with RF is SoR.

So, first off, it's flat out *NOT* more hate for less gcd's, secondly, if you're not pushing the max threat you're capable of, and not losing hate, your best dps are failing.

It is more hate, you get 2 extra ticks off of it. That's simple math. And my DPS don't fail, you don't beat Malygos 25 with shitty DPS, the fight is a dps race.

The only excuse for not using a proper rotation is using the bug to cover the threat gap while using fully imp judgement every time it's up for maximum libram uptime.

Anything else is allakazham shit.

My rotation works just fine for me, I only have 1 talent in imp. Judgement, and I don't try to keep Consecrate up full time, so the recast on it isn't an issue. If I ever start loosing hate, maybe you'll have some validitiy to your statement.

p.s. it's also the only paladin glyph which offers any kind of incoming damage reduction of any sort.

On some bosses, many bosses in wrath don't have parry mechanics.

[Plow]

It's not useless, but you don't move them around, which was your original point.

You don't move them around... because they stand in one spot and shoot you from ranged.

If you, personally, don't move around, well, you're retarded and your healer hates you I promise.

None of which you have to move around, and there's only the 6 construct fights before Urom, and the 3 packs before Varos.

You realize you can kite the constructs easily? Oh that's right you prefer to sit and eat damage. Even so, the casters are easier and easier the more flexibility you have in moving around to them. Kind of like, oh, everything in the damn game.

Tonkor, Proudmoore. Feel free to look me up.

sarcasm is above you still I see

Becuase this method ensures that 0 zombies get through to Gluth. The damage is easily healed through, and offers a much better degree of control vs kiting them all over the place.

Not being fucking retarded ensures that 0 zombies get through to Gluth. And wtf how can you have issues with control if you're not requiring healing and nobody's dps'ing the mobs?

Gatewatcher's 3 packs are pulled back and slightly around the corner to bunch them all up safely and keep the skirmishers from getting behind you. Pull the first one back there, and wait for the rest to come on their timer. Hadronox's trash packs are funneled into a back corner so they have to come through you to get to your healer, instead of running all over the place like you apparently like to do.

Anub, fool.

I don't even know what you were trying to say here.

A noob, fool.

You can pull an extra 10 Aboms to the center of the room without running silly around the room consecrating all over the place. Your point was that you had to AoE tank on the move, which you don't.

Simplicity. Why would you choose to sit around waiting for mobs to come to you when you're doing an achievement that's essentially "can you kill this many extra mobs in the same amount of time?"

Oh, that's right, because you don't think about these things, you just absolutely cannot admit you're wrong when arguing with me under any circumstances.

Even with shitty locations on the first half, with the kind of dps I run with you can burn through it all to have plenty of time left. I've managed just fine tanking them all, without losing hate, with a 10 second consecrate timer, it's not as huge as you make it out to be.

If your spawn locations go back and for at the farthest points possible, it cannot be covered without a race through the gauntlet.

No you didn't. You named one, CoS.

Keep telling yourself that because you can't understand simple things it makes you right.

I'll give the glyph a try, didn't realize that it increased HotR damage.

That's... just sad.

It is more hate, you get 2 extra ticks off of it. That's simple math.

Whatever retarded rotation you're using is less hate, period. You flat out cannot match the best hate building possible for the class by being fucking retarded and going O BUT IM TONKO LOL I PWN.

And my DPS don't fail, you don't beat Malygos 25 with shitty DPS, the fight is a dps race.

On my server we pug Malygos. It's a fucking joke.

The DPS race is "do you know how to hit 111114111114111114 and not stand in retarded shit" on the drakes.

My rotation works just fine for me, I only have 1 talent in imp. Judgement, and I don't try to keep Consecrate up full time, so the recast on it isn't an issue. If I ever start loosing hate, maybe you'll have some validitiy to your statement.

Allakhazam retards' rotations work fine for them too, I'm sure.

But of course you know this, since you are one.

On some bosses, many bosses in wrath don't have parry mechanics.

Wow you're getting pretty ridiculously desperate at this point.

How about next you find something I said, which you had previously said the exact same thing in the same thread, and decide that since I said it instead of you, it's suddenly wrong, and argue and talk shit and get a mod to ban me for it?

Here ya go: Turn undead glyph is actually pretty decent.

Have fun with that.

[Tonko]

You don't move them around... because they stand in one spot and shoot you from ranged.

If you, personally, don't move around, well, you're retarded and your healer hates you I promise.

Arcane Torrent works wonders for getting them to come to you.

You realize you can kite the constructs easily? Oh that's right you prefer to sit and eat damage. Even so, the casters are easier and easier the more flexibility you have in moving around to them. Kind of like, oh, everything in the damn game.

Why kite something that you can str8 up tank with no problems? And you can LoS the casters to make them come to you. Tank smarter, not harder.

sarcasm is above you still I see

How was that sarcasm? It was clearly an insult.

Not being fucking retarded ensures that 0 zombies get through to Gluth. And wtf how can you have issues with control if you're not requiring healing and nobody's dps'ing the mobs?

If both methods work, but one of them is easier to do, which do you do?

Anub, fool.

You stand at the bottom of the ramp, and move away from the spike. The little shits are easily killed, and our taunt is player targeted, see someone take damage from the little shits that drop in/fly in? taunt. No need to move around.

A noob, fool.

No, sorry.

Simplicity. Why would you choose to sit around waiting for mobs to come to you when you're doing an achievement that's essentially "can you kill this many extra mobs in the same amount of time?"

Because they move at a decent speed once agroed and it's easier to let them come to you than to go running all over the place.

Oh, that's right, because you don't think about these things, you just absolutely cannot admit you're wrong when arguing with me under any circumstances.

I said I'd try the glyph, you've been wrong multiple times before, I'm sorry I don't take you at your word.

If your spawn locations go back and for at the farthest points possible, it cannot be covered without a race through the gauntlet.

Yes you can, you can make up the time with dps & efficiency.

Keep telling yourself that because you can't understand simple things it makes you right.

I've given you actual examples of why you're wrong on many of your points here, you pointed out a mechanic of the glyph that I wasn't aware of, and I conceded the point and said I would try it. You've simply replied to each of my factual statements with insults and rage.

Whatever retarded rotation you're using is less hate, period. You flat out cannot match the best hate building possible for the class by being fucking retarded and going O BUT IM TONKO LOL I PWN.

Because if two ways to do something both work, only one of them are right? And I've never said that.

On my server we pug Malygos. It's a fucking joke.

The DPS race is "do you know how to hit 111114111114111114 and not stand in retarded shit" on the drakes.

I doubt you pug Malygos 25, it requires a good deal of coordination in phases 1 & 2.

Your comment about the dps of my raid has nothing to do with what you do on the drakes, that's the easy part. You have to dps phases 1 & 2 fast enough to get to phase 3 with enough time. Phase 3 isn't 11114 btw, you should research that. You won't dps malygos down with a rotation consisting of 5 Flame Spikes to a Lifeburst.

Allakhazam retards' rotations work fine for them too, I'm sure.

But of course you know this, since you are one.

No, I'm not. Never posted there.

I've managed to keep this discussion civil, and tried to stick to the facts. You've thrown personal insults & a very schoolage mentality back in an attempt to... I don't know. If you'd like to continue the discussion, you're welcome to send me a PM, but let's stop derailing the thread.

[Koul]

the only thing I would switch out for your gear shue is the back piece.

I wouldn't worry about defense rating until 70. Even with BC instances you won't really need it. They're cake now.

talents look good as well.

[Shuemue]

heh, cape choices seemed fairly limited, either really shitty or vastly expensive, this one was like 40s

[Royal]

Whoever said don't worry about gear until BC was so correct it isn't even funny. Just grind and do quests and dont worry about gear at all. Better gear hardly helps at all really. You should be saving up your gold so you can buy all your mount training right when you can.

[Shuemue]

Fuck that, freebie mount at 61

[Norellicus]

You have to buy the training, you don't get the whole kit for free.

[Plow]

Arcane Torrent works wonders for getting them to come to you.

That's right, you don't have to move to arcane torrent, the range is infinite right? And every paladin is a blood elf.

You can bullshit and try to dance around the fact that you do, in fact, need to be able to move around while tanking them all you want, you're still wrong.

Why kite something that you can str8 up tank with no problems? And you can LoS the casters to make them come to you. Tank smarter, not harder.

Why straight up tank something that you can kite with no problems?

With the casters the LoS is screwy, plus the fact that they'll cast ground targeted aoe's and waste time, as well as fuck with your healers while you're los'ing, because the range between them is too big for AS.

How was that sarcasm? It was clearly an insult.

It was a sarcastic way of saying "For crying out loud, you really haven't noticed that you can get out of range of the one threatening move he has?"

There's more to it that that even, he can get screwy with his positioning and face away from you while casting it, which tricks your melees into getting himself owned, but the point was simply that if you're not moving around sometimes even while he's above ground, you're doing it wrong.

If both methods work, but one of them is easier to do, which do you do?

The one that's easier on everybody but me-- I trust myself to be able to take on extra challenges to reduce the stress on the rest of the group.

I pug absolutely everything I do, if I hadn't clarified that yet.

There's also the fact that it allows you to keep more people closer to gluth, but meh the fight's a freaking joke anyway.

You stand at the bottom of the ramp, and move away from the spike. The little shits are easily killed, and our taunt is player targeted, see someone take damage from the little shits that drop in/fly in? taunt. No need to move around.

While it's true that you're not *forced* into moving during the underground phase, it's sill much easier the more you *can* move your threat spot. Same deal with HoS event, same deal with Pinnacle gauntlet, etc.

No, sorry.

Move out of range of pound. You avoid massive damage and a long stun.

Because they move at a decent speed once agroed and it's easier to let them come to you than to go running all over the place.

They move slow as fuck regardless (even when they get death gripped it's in slow motion, how do you not notice these things?), and your ranged needs to be focused on soldiers, not pulling mobs the tank can get.

I said I'd try the glyph, you've been wrong multiple times before, I'm sorry I don't take you at your word.

Don't take my word for it, try reading elitistjerks. If I'd take my own advice and check in there daily, I'd have known about JotJ working!

Yes you can, you can make up the time with dps & efficiency.

Maybe, if your dps are specced for aoe and in full on 25 man stuff, but if you're going back and forth between hall and square, the pressure is going to be utterly ridiculous if you're not pulling at least 2-3 groups at a time in the gauntlet.

I've given you actual examples of why you're wrong on many of your points here, you pointed out a mechanic of the glyph that I wasn't aware of, and I conceded the point and said I would try it. You've simply replied to each of my factual statements with insults and rage.

My take is that I tried to give friendly advice about the consecrate glyph assuming you didn't have the experience to realize how bad it was, and since it's me you took it as an insult, and then decided you needed to refute as much of what I said as possible.
So be it, we dislike each other, our discussions aren't going to be the friendliest. I'm doing my best to stay reasonable, though.

You're also ignoring my examples, and trying to say that I'm wrong in places that I'm not.

Because if two ways to do something both work, only one of them are right? And I've never said that.

Correct. Pounding a screw into the wall with a hammer will work, does that make it right?

I doubt you pug Malygos 25, it requires a good deal of coordination in phases 1 & 2.

You don't know Blackrock, then. We had 3 guilds with maly cleared the first week on each side. Half the people walking around dalaran are wearing Twilight Vanquisher title.

Having Death and Taxes, Nurfed, Eminence, and Elementium will do that for a server.

Your comment about the dps of my raid has nothing to do with what you do on the drakes, that's the easy part. You have to dps phases 1 & 2 fast enough to get to phase 3 with enough time. Phase 3 isn't 11114 btw, you should research that. You won't dps malygos down with a rotation consisting of 5 Flame Spikes to a Lifeburst.

2 sorry. If there's one thing people on my server freaking fail at, it's drakes. No question whatsoever Oculus achievements are the hardest for us to get with the quality of gear we run around in from purely pugging. Hell I did lawdi dadi and skadi all the time in a group where 2 of the people hadn't run pinnacle before.

No, I'm not. Never posted there.

My point is that choosing to ignore your rotation "because it works" is dumb, and it's allakhazam shit. Why is Alla looked down upon? Because people there argue constantly that doing it the best way isn't important.

But that's ok, Wise gear works great amirite.

I've managed to keep this discussion civil, and tried to stick to the facts. You've thrown personal insults & a very schoolage mentality back in an attempt to... I don't know. If you'd like to continue the discussion, you're welcome to send me a PM, but let's stop derailing the thread.

I won't derail again sorry that was a cheap shot, but other than that I think the whole discussion is perfectly on topic with the thread.

[Shuemue]

You have to buy the training, you don't get the whole kit for free.

Wiki says I get the 150 riding skill free

[Norellicus]

If you complete the quest, you get it for free. The trained skill at 61 requires 150 riding skill.

Summon Charger - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

[Shuemue]

Conflicting info on there; Riding - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

Note that Paladins receive the 75 and 150 skills as part of buying their level 30 and 60 mounts from their trainer.

No mention of the quest, which is why I thought it was free

[Correction]

The quote-splitting bullshit is getting impossible to read. Stop plz.

[Shuemue]

The quote-splitting bullshit is getting impossible to read. Stop plz.

It's easy;

Idiot1: Spurious claim!
Idiot2: You're an moron!
Idiot1: no u
Idiot 2: no u
Idiot1: no u
Idiot 2: no u
etc

[Royal]

The 60 mount isnt a problem. The problem is the 1k flying, then 1k northrend flying, then 5k epic flying.

[Norellicus]

Straight from the horse's mouth (LOL PUN):

WoW -> Patch Notes -> Current Patch Notes

The epic ground mount is now available on the trainer at level 61, requiring 150 riding skill, and the non-epic mount learned.

;x

[Correction]

The 60 mount isnt a problem. The problem is the 1k flying, then 1k northrend flying, then 5k epic flying.

These are amounts that are trivial to earn if you do any of the quests required to hit 70, then 80.

[Royal]

These are amounts that are trivial to earn if you do any of the quests required to hit 70, then 80.

Not 7k altogether. MAYBE if you bought aboslutely nothing throughout the whole thing?

[Correction]

Not 7k altogether. MAYBE if you bought aboslutely nothing throughout the whole thing?

Altogether I've made 10k from northrend alone, and I didn't spend an extraordinary amount of time farming stuff, mostly dailies. Just doing ebon blade dailies to exalted is worth an epic flier alone.