Rosetta Stone Questions

[Yuri-G]

I was always under the impression that Icelandic wasn't that hard, I spent 3 months there few years ago and learnt to get by with simple terms and a base of high school Swedish. But then yeah.. most languages only become horrific when you move past everyday speech and go into the finer details of grammar. Finnish being difficult as fuck I do agree with though. >_>;

Maybe it's not; I knew Finnish was from friends who've taken it and I thought Icelandic was similar. I was probably wrong on that point.

And I think languages become fun when you move past everyday speech and go into the finer details of grammar, but that's why I'm a language nerd.

[Darus Grey]

Maybe it's not; I knew Finnish was from friends who've taken it and I thought Icelandic was similar. I was probably wrong on that point.

And I think languages become fun when you move past everyday speech and go into the finer details of grammar, but that's why I'm a language nerd.

Icelandic is directly related to old norse(it's what we refer to as a linguistic bubble), basically it's like a 700yr time capsule into norweigen as spoken almost a millenia ago.

I've studied Icelandic for 3yrs now and it's very alien. It's main feature is it's almost entirely inflectional(where most modern languages have dropped most inflection(english) or significantly simplified it(french), not only that, within the inflection there's 5 genders.

In actual practice Icelandic works much more like Latin than any other language.

Well Finnish is also very complex it's not complex in the same way, even though it is also very inflectional it simply has a much different morphological topology.

And if you're a language nerd wtf does that make me >.>/

[Yeargdribble]

I tried Rosetta Stone long ago and hated it because my brain is too warped around structured learning. I gave it another shot later on and tried to be more open minded... It's pretty damn incredible how quickly you can learn using it if you can get past the fact that you don't have a direct translation in front of you.

[Senoska]

Rosetta stone does nothing for grammar. I'm sure you'll enjoy Masu and Te form when you don't even know how to use it. There are some things no matter what that you will not learn from rosetta stone. For example Suru is the dictionary form of the verb "To Do" but when put into masu form its Shimasu, etc. Showing you pictures won't really give you that idea.

[SephYuyX]

Japanese is only a bit hard because you have to memorize 2 sets of phonetic alphabets, plus Kanji, and thats a whole other beast. But once you get past being able to read/write Hiragana/Katakana, it's just like learning any other langauge. Grammer is fairly straight forward, and after that it's purely vocab. Kanji is love/hate, it's very handy, but damn, it's no fun learning a bajillion kanji characters.

[Maaglin]

Having moved to Japan for my job, I'm currently taking Japanese lessons. My teacher absolutely hates rosetta stone (or any other similar products) because she doesn't feel they teach you what you really need to know to use the language.

If you are in a position to take an actual class, I think that would be by far your best bet.

And in fact the people in class that have attempted to teach themselves are actually much farther behind in general and have a harder time accepting new ideas because they think they know how it should go based on a flawed system.

[SephYuyX]

I agree, trying to teach yourself past an extent is a bad idea. After just one day of taking a JPN class I had a whole new view on it, and if you can atleast take a very basic class that's just a day/week/month long it will help out tons.

[Airenn]

Having moved to Japan for my job, I'm currently taking Japanese lessons. My teacher absolutely hates rosetta stone (or any other similar products) because she doesn't feel they teach you what you really need to know to use the language.

If you are in a position to take an actual class, I think that would be by far your best bet.

And in fact the people in class that have attempted to teach themselves are actually much farther behind in general and have a harder time accepting new ideas because they think they know how it should go based on a flawed system.

Holy shit, this is good to know. Thanks for your insight on this. I will continue to study on my own, but I'll keep this in mind if it starts happenign to me to keep an open mind. Even if I have to relearn some things.

[Maaglin]

I almost started teaching myself before I moved over because I thought it would give me a jump start on things. But I'm glad I didn't now.

My teacher uses the silent method, if you are familar with it. Bascially you just start with a color chart that represents the different sounds, then after you master the sounds, you move to a different color chart that has Hiragana on it so you can associate the colors and sounds with the characters. Then you move onto words, basic sentences, etc.

I actually really enjoy this style of learning as it just clicks for me. She bascially just performs the actions, points at stuff, etc., while saying something in Japanese, and you figure out what it means but all the while you're practicing pronunciation and proper form as well.

So imo, if you are going to teach yourself to get started, I'd work with learning the sounds of the languge first and then associating those sounds with Hiragana characters. And don't use Romanji for anything when you are getting started. It will only mess you up and lead you down an incorrect path in so far as the phonetics are concerned.

[SephYuyX]

Make sure you actually find a way to hear the sounds first though, Id think youd be able to find a youtube clip of sounds, as they sound different than how they are romanized.

a = ah
i = ee
u = oo
e = eh or ey
o = oh

These arnt vocab words, this just represents a word that sounds the same.
na = as in bana(na), ni = as in (nee)dle, nu = as in (noo)dle, ne as in (ne)ck, no as in no.

[Maaglin]

Make sure you actually find a way to hear the sounds first though, Id think youd be able to find a youtube clip of sounds, as they sound different than how they are romanized.

a = ah
i = ee
u = oo
e = eh or ey
o = oh

These arnt vocab words, this just represents a word that sounds the same.
na = as in bana(na), ni = as in (nee)dle, nu = as in (noo)dle, ne as in (ne)ck, no as in no.

Very true, which is another reason taking a real class helps a lot more since you can get the proper pronunciations. But yeah, should be easy to find sound clips online.

[ZarakiKujata]

I haven't seen anybody answer your specific confusion so I'll chime in with the little bit of Japanese I know, I guess the pictures aren't that clear but ottoko no hito/onna no hito is essentially man/woman not teenagers. The other pictures, onnanoko is female child, taken from kodomo. Hope this helps somewhat

Ottoko = male
Onna = female
hito = person
kodomo = child

As for Rosetta Stone, I've never used it but am considering it and I've heard nothing but good things about it

[Darus Grey]

More useful version of what you were trying to say with ah ee...etc.

you can go here:
ipachart

To hear each IPA phoneme.

Hiragana in IPA Notation
  	* 	a 	i 	ʸi 	u 	e 	o 	ː
* 	  	ぁ     ぃ                     え      お 
                あ 	い 	  	う  	ぇ 	ぉ
b 	  	ば 	び 	  	ぶ 	べ 	ぼ 	 
d 	  	だ 	  	  	  	で 	ど 	 
ʣ 	  	  	  	ぢ 	づ 	  	  	 
g 	  	が 	ぎ 	  	ぐ 	げ 	ご 	 
h 	  	は 	  	ひ 	  	へ 	ほ 	 
ɸ 	  	  	  	  	ふ 	  	  	 
j 	  	や 	  	  	ゆ 	  	よ 	 
k 	  	か 	き 	  	く 	け 	こ 	 
m 	  	ま 	み 	  	む 	め 	も 	 
n 	ん 	な 	に 	  	ぬ 	ね 	の 	 
p 	  	ぱ 	ぴ 	  	ぷ 	ぺ 	ぽ 	 
r 	  	ら 	り 	  	る 	れ 	ろ 	 
s 	  	さ 	  	し 	す 	せ 	そ 	 
t 	っ 	た 	  	  	  	て 	と 	 
ʦ 	  	  	  	ち 	つ 	  	  	 
v 	  	  	  	  	ゔ 	  	  	 
w 	  	ゎ
                わ 	ゐ 	  	  	ゑ 	を 	 
z 	  	ざ 	  	じ 	ず 	ぜ 	ぞ

[Senoska]

Make sure you actually find a way to hear the sounds first though, Id think youd be able to find a youtube clip of sounds, as they sound different than how they are romanized.

a = ah
i = ee
u = oo
e = eh or ey
o = oh

These arnt vocab words, this just represents a word that sounds the same.
na = as in bana(na), ni = as in (nee)dle, nu = as in (noo)dle, ne as in (ne)ck, no as in no.

Eh, I don't think this does the sounds justice... I dunno, something about the way Japanese speak, this doesnt really cut the mustard.

One thing; お is not "Oh" it starts like you're saying "o" but cuts short, its a very short vowel... I don't really know how to explain it but it seems people draw it out wayyyyy too much.

Another thing is Japanese seems to be a more horizontal language than vertical. English, specifically american english, your mouth formation tends to be much more of an oval than when speaking Japanese. I don't really know how to explain it.... It's just something I've noticed. Could be total bullshit, I'm not sure.

[Darus Grey]

Another thing is Japanese seems to be a more horizontal language than vertical. English, specifically american english, your mouth formation tends to be much more of an oval than when speaking Japanese. I don't really know how to explain it.... It's just something I've noticed. Could be total bullshit, I'm not sure.

The description you're looking for is Japanese contains more fricatives and stops.

[Airenn]

I haven't seen anybody answer your specific confusion so I'll chime in with the little bit of Japanese I know, I guess the pictures aren't that clear but ottoko no hito/onna no hito is essentially man/woman not teenagers. The other pictures, onnanoko is female child, taken from kodomo. Hope this helps somewhat

Ottoko = male
Onna = female
hito = person
kodomo = child

As for Rosetta Stone, I've never used it but am considering it and I've heard nothing but good things about it

Try it.

I knew those basics, I was more just confused as to how you were supposed to put it together if you knew nothing. Having known some Japanese I was able to start out, and then proceed to harder things by trial and error. I knew Ottoko and Onna and Kodomo. Hito puts things into more perspective though, so thank you.

The sounds of how Japanese is spoken is not a problem (yet) for me. I understand it. I know how it sounds and how to pronounce most words.

I know the difference between "Ona" and "Onna" -- I have no idea if Ona is a word, just sayin'! I understand how to hold the n sound, k sound, etc.

[Airenn]

Very true, which is another reason taking a real class helps a lot more since you can get the proper pronunciations. But yeah, should be easy to find sound clips online.

The Rosetta Stone JP packs I have, actually have a sound program to it. It was VERY interesting though I think it leaves it at the bottom to save for last maybe ? Maybe I should be doing THAT first.

More so, because you repeat it and it grades you on how well you are pronouncing words.


It also associates not only the romanji version of the word but the kanji/katakana actual word with whatever you are learning. You can switch in between what you want.

[Airenn]

Eh, I don't think this does the sounds justice... I dunno, something about the way Japanese speak, this doesnt really cut the mustard.

One thing; お is not "Oh" it starts like you're saying "o" but cuts short, its a very short vowel... I don't really know how to explain it but it seems people draw it out wayyyyy too much.

Another thing is Japanese seems to be a more horizontal language than vertical. English, specifically american english, your mouth formation tends to be much more of an oval than when speaking Japanese. I don't really know how to explain it.... It's just something I've noticed. Could be total bullshit, I'm not sure.

As I mentioned before, this is something I understand. When exactly these tricky things need to be in place/used is something else entirely, but I understand many of the concepts behind the speech of Japanese.

--Edit: Yea coulda just made one post for these last three. TOO BAD. At work and lazy.

[Merovingian]

Make sure you actually find a way to hear the sounds first though, Id think youd be able to find a youtube clip of sounds, as they sound different than how they are romanized.

a = ah
i = ee
u = oo
e = eh or ey
o = oh

These arnt vocab words, this just represents a word that sounds the same.
na = as in bana(na), ni = as in (nee)dle, nu = as in (noo)dle, ne as in (ne)ck, no as in no.

This sounds are very similar to Spanish, we use the same sound and cut them exactly like them.

[Kenshiin]

Anyone have a clean torrent with all 3 versions for Japanese?

I've been trying to teach myself with hopes of going to visit there someday. I figured I'd start with the 2 alphabets then move on to nouns and grammar. These websites have been pretty helpful to me so far:


Hirigana with sounds: : : Access Japanese : HIRAGANA CHART
Online quiz: Japanische Hiragana und Katakana online lernen und ben mit KanaTeacher