Evaluate potential PC purchase...

[Maguspk]

Ok, so I'm looking to build a computer finally after about a year of sitting on the idea and not acting on it. I was talking to friends these past few weeks and I got recommended a great site for really cheap custom built PCs:

CyberPower Inc. - building the best Gaming PC is not only our profession, it is our obsession.

I've made a bunch of PCs on there and they usually come out to around 900 and I don't think it'd be much cheaper if I simply got the parts on newegg, but if you can put together an equivalent PC for cheaper I'd have no problem buying the parts and putting one together.

Anyway, onto the parts I've chosen with little explanations for my choice and concerns I'd especially like feedback on..thanks in advance!

* CASE: Apevia X-Dreamer Mid-Tower 350W Case w/ Window & Temperature Display (BLACK COLOR)

Spoiler: show

I chose this case because it was the cheapest, I don't think having a specific case is a big deal, right? It's easy to save money here.

* PSU: Sigma Shark SP-635W PSU - SLI Ready

Spoiler: show

Replaces the 350W that comes with the case, should be able to handle everything fine, not worried about this piece.

* CPU: (Quad-Core)Intel® Core™ 2 Quad Q8200 @ 2.33GHz 1333FSB 4MB L2 Cache 64-bit

Spoiler: show

I am still torn between Dual Core vs Quad Core. I've read that most software I'd be using wouldn't really exploit the quad core situation but I want to be ready for the future and also, I think I can overclock it since I got a cooling system for my CPU (below). So would it outperform the 3.0 GHz dual core if I just overclocked it to 3.0 GHz?

* Cooling: Thermaltake V1 Gaming CPU Cooling Fan (Excellent Overclocking + Silent Proof + Smart CPU & System Thermal Monitor)

Spoiler: show

I heard good things about Thermaltake so I feed comfortable spending the extra 50 bucks on this cooling fan for the CPU, especially since I want to overclock the quad core processors

* MOTHERBOARD: EVGA 750 SLI NVIDIA 750i SLI Chipset LGA775 Supports LGA775 FSB1333 DDR2/800 Mainboard w/GbLAN, USB2.0, & 7.1Audio

Spoiler: show

I just went with the MOBO alot of people mention being good (nvidia and 750i). I have no idea how this will work with the rest of the stuff I've picked so is it a good choice or is there a better choice?

* MEMORY: (Req.DDR2 MainBoard)2GB (2x1GB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory (Corsair or Major Brand)

Spoiler: show

Basic RAM here, not really worried about this, I got the cheap 2 GB option because I figure I can just buy RAM as it's price drops with DDR3 becoming more prevalent.

* VIDEO CARD: ATI Radeon HD 4850 PCI-E 16X 512MB Video Card (Major Brand Powered by ATI)
* VIDEO CARD 2: NONE
* VIDEO CARD 3: NONE

Spoiler: show

I went with this because I see alot of praise for it on these forums. Will it work with everything else I've selected and will I not encounter errors? For some reason I have it stuck in my head that nvidia is the safer choice or the more popular choice, I think I just need to be reassured this choice won't conflict with the other hardware I've chosen and will actually do just as well as the 9800 nvidia cards.

Also, what's the deal with the really cheap 1 GB cards for both ATI and nvidia? Is this some sort of marketing trick? Do you really get to use all 1 GB of the memory or is it just bragging rights and doesn't really outperform a 512 MB card?

* LCD Monitor: NONE
* HARD DRIVE: Single Hard Drive (74GB Gaming Western Digital Raptor 10, 000RPM SATA150 16MB Cache WD740ADFD)
* Data Hard Drive: NONE

Spoiler: show

I figure I can just buy a 2nd hard drive for really cheap somewhere Black Friday that is 7200 for my other stuff besides games. Also, my current computer, can I use it's hard drive as just a data drive even though it has my OS and stuff on it, in my new computer or do I need to reformat it to put it into another PC?I have no idea how I'm going to move all my shit over to the new PC, like my music specifically, so much of it...

* Optical Drive: (Special Price) LG 20X DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW DRIVE DUAL LAYER (BLACK COLOR)
* Optical Drive 2: NONE

Spoiler: show

Got the default option here too, don't really need a strong drive I don't think, I don't do much burning at home, I have a better burner at work I would use if I had to burn anything for work or something.

* SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO

Spoiler: show

Do I need a better sound card? I never understood how people spend so much on sound cards when the default ones seem fine. Do most people just go for default, because I don't think I could live with spending 100 bucks on a slightly better sound..

Total: 909.00 dollars

[Kohan]

* CASE: Apevia X-Dreamer Mid-Tower 350W Case w/ Window & Temperature Display (BLACK COLOR)

Spoiler: show

I chose this case because it was the cheapest, I don't think having a specific case is a big deal, right? It's easy to save money here.

A 350W power supply is far too weak for the kind of setup you're making. You should buy a different, nicer case for around the same price that doesn't come with a PSU, then buy a PSU separately.

Do not skimp on this. It's a mistake that too many people make when they build their first PCs, have a friend build one for them, et cetera. You should buy a 500W PSU at the very least, and it should be from a good manufacturer of low-end PSUs (e.g., Corsair, Antec).

* CPU: (Quad-Core)Intel® Core™ 2 Quad Q8200 @ 2.33GHz 1333FSB 4MB L2 Cache 64-bit
I am still torn between Dual Core vs Quad Core. I've read that most software I'd be using wouldn't really exploit the quad core situation but I want to be ready for the future

Unfortunately, you will not be. Nothing noteworthy uses quad core technology now, and it can actually cause performance decreases rather than increases. Additionally, by the time its use is widespread, the quad core processors available will be superior and you'll likely want to upgrade again. There is no reason at all for you to get a quad core processor now. It won't future-proof you and you'll be wasting your money.

Get a high end dual core instead.

[Maguspk]

Updated OP, some stuff wasn't included. Keep in mind I can't just "not get a case with a PSU" the site forces you into some things, that's why I said if you can get it cheaper by finding all the parts or whatever than that works, otherwise it's not possible. Like I can't just get a case and PSU separately, I have to buy a case and I have to buy a PSU, and I only have certain options from them.

[Kohan]

Updated OP, some stuff wasn't included. Keep in mind I can't just "not get a case with a PSU" the site forces you into some things, that's why I said if you can get it cheaper by finding all the parts or whatever than that works, otherwise it's not possible. Like I can't just get a case and PSU separately, I have to buy a case and I have to buy a PSU, and I only have certain options from them.

It's unfortunate that they won't let you get a case without a PSU, but the replacement you've picked is nice. That's a good PSU.

[Olo401]

Unfortunately, you will not be. Nothing noteworthy uses quad core technology now, and it can actually cause performance decreases rather than increases. Additionally, by the time its use is widespread, the quad core processors available will be superior and you'll likely want to upgrade again. There is no reason at all for you to get a quad core processor now. It won't future-proof you and you'll be wasting your money.

Get a high end dual core instead.

Agreed - for the same price, or maybe a few dollars in savings, you can switch over to the E8400 Duo 3.0gHz. I got one instead of the Q6600 and I'm quite happy with it, plus I've yet to overclock but I've seen people getting some insane numbers.

[Maguspk]

So besides switching to a simple 3.0 GHz dual core how do the parts look and will they all work fine and seamlessly together?

I'm thinking since I'll just have a dual core and not a quad core maybe I can also just get rid of the CPU cooling altogether? Save myself about 60 bucks there and I can always just buy a cooling system from newegg if I end up needing it later on.

[Avanarius]

That heatsink is way too expensive for what it's capable of imo but I don't really know what options you have available.

[Mansin]

That heatsinks looks aluminum. Copper is almost twice as heat conductive as aluminum, and isn't much more expensive if you're just looking for some copper fins.

[Olo401]

Hmmmm.. Lemme try something out here.

https://secure.newegg.com/WishList/M...px?ID=11428908

Without a copy of Windows (I'm assuming you have your own license of XP or Vista), and not including mail-in rebates or shipping, this build comes in a little bit under the cost of the package you picked out @ Cyberpower. You'd also have to put it together yourself, which isn't hard.

[Isiolia]

So besides switching to a simple 3.0 GHz dual core how do the parts look and will they all work fine and seamlessly together?

I'm thinking since I'll just have a dual core and not a quad core maybe I can also just get rid of the CPU cooling altogether? Save myself about 60 bucks there and I can always just buy a cooling system from newegg if I end up needing it later on.

The stock cooler should be fine at stock speeds. If they offer the Arctic Cooling Freezer Pro 7, that should be maybe half of what the cooler you have on there costs (about $27 from Newegg), and is quite nice for basic cooling/moderate overclock.

[Maguspk]

Hmmmm.. Lemme try something out here.

https://secure.newegg.com/WishList/M...px?ID=11428908

Without a copy of Windows (I'm assuming you have your own license of XP or Vista), and not including mail-in rebates or shipping, this build comes in a little bit under the cost of the package you picked out @ Cyberpower. You'd also have to put it together yourself, which isn't hard.

That hard drive is 7200, I got a 10000 RPM, also you got a really expensive video card, I don't think the price increase of nearly one hundred dollars is worth maybe the slight performance increase I'd see going from the 4850 to the 4870. Correct me if I'm mistaken though. I think your parts would come out roughly to be the same as mine if you made those changes though.

The computer itself, that I've posted above do you all think it's a good deal, about 900 bucks and will it work well? I just need some solid confirmation that buying this won't be a waste of my time/money.

Thanks for all the replies so far, by the way.

[Olo401]

First off, let me just say again that I was just conducting an experiment to see if a bunch of parts would come in about the same as a custom-built machine with software already loaded. I do that a lot 'cause I'm a big fan of motivating folks to build their own machines (because pre-built machines tend to SUCK BALLS.) Custom builders like Cyberpower are actually decent tho - they're doing the same thing you would if you built it yourself.

-=-
The difference you noticed in the hard drives isn't the only one. The 10k RPM one is a SATA-150, and the one I picked out is a SATA-300 (SATA 2.0, has a higher data transfer rate) so it's a step up in speed, but also a small step back in technology. High-velocity drives also tend to be more expensive. It really depends what you're planning to do with your computer, and whether that would warrant a high-speed hard drive.

The difference in the video card isn't that big a deal actually. Both the 4850 and 4870 are terrific GPUs. The 4850 version of that same card comes in about $80 cheaper after rebates, so that would allow you to get a license of Vista Ultimate 64-bit and still be close to that $900 figure.

[Isiolia]

That hard drive is 7200, I got a 10000 RPM, also you got a really expensive video card, I don't think the price increase of nearly one hundred dollars is worth maybe the slight performance increase I'd see going from the 4850 to the 4870. Correct me if I'm mistaken though. I think your parts would come out roughly to be the same as mine if you made those changes though.

Kinda selective logic there =P A 10k HDD will run hotter, louder, and is a lot pricier per GB than a 7200rpm, for a small performance gain...yet $100 for a better video card is questionable?
To me, the same logic should be applied throughout.

Personally, the nVidia mobo doesn't appeal to me, I'd echo the general sentiment towards a dual core CPU if you're focusing on gaming. I'd go with better/more RAM off the bat.

For your comments...

I chose this case because it was the cheapest, I don't think having a specific case is a big deal, right? It's easy to save money here.

You want a decent case at least. A crappy one won't necessarily cool well, or have space for everything you want to put in it. Some, for example, have issues accommodating longer video cards.

I am still torn between Dual Core vs Quad Core. I've read that most software I'd be using wouldn't really exploit the quad core situation but I want to be ready for the future and also, I think I can overclock it since I got a cooling system for my CPU (below). So would it outperform the 3.0 GHz dual core if I just overclocked it to 3.0 GHz?

Sure, you can overclock a quad core...but if that's your plan, research what people can hit with the given CPU you've picked, and what it takes to do that. Nothing is "future proofed" when it comes to CPUs...two years down the line, your CPU will be outdated, whether it's a dual or quad.

I just went with the MOBO alot of people mention being good (nvidia and 750i). I have no idea how this will work with the rest of the stuff I've picked so is it a good choice or is there a better choice?

There are things I'd buy instead, but if you're intent on buying from that vendor it's more a matter of what they offer.

Basic RAM here, not really worried about this, I got the cheap 2 GB option because I figure I can just buy RAM as it's price drops with DDR3 becoming more prevalent.

If you're planning to overclock, you may want to get faster RAM. Also keep in mind that the price of RAM may not go down as newer tech replaces it...RAM gets cheap when it's being mass produced, which is usually when a given tech is in its prime. As it is, RAM is a bargain these days anyway.

I went with this because I see alot of praise for it on these forums. Will it work with everything else I've selected and will I not encounter errors? For some reason I have it stuck in my head that nvidia is the safer choice or the more popular choice, I think I just need to be reassured this choice won't conflict with the other hardware I've chosen and will actually do just as well as the 9800 nvidia cards.

Also, what's the deal with the really cheap 1 GB cards for both ATI and nvidia? Is this some sort of marketing trick? Do you really get to use all 1 GB of the memory or is it just bragging rights and doesn't really outperform a 512 MB card?

Up to you really. There are pros and cons with the ATI vs nVidia stuff. Personally, my 4850 has been serving me well. I think one reason you see the ATI recommended here particularly is because of the issues people have had with nVidia + FFXI over the years.

The 1GB cards aren't really useful yet.

I figure I can just buy a 2nd hard drive for really cheap somewhere Black Friday that is 7200 for my other stuff besides games. Also, my current computer, can I use it's hard drive as just a data drive even though it has my OS and stuff on it, in my new computer or do I need to reformat it to put it into another PC?I have no idea how I'm going to move all my shit over to the new PC, like my music specifically, so much of it...

You can just put your existing drive in, generally speaking anyway.

Do I need a better sound card? I never understood how people spend so much on sound cards when the default ones seem fine. Do most people just go for default, because I don't think I could live with spending 100 bucks on a slightly better sound..

Get a better card if you want surround sound support in games, or if you have other specific needs for it. Otherwise, the money would be better spent getting better headphones/speakers. I find it odd the amount that people will spent on PC speaker systems too, rather than actual audio equipment, but that's neither here nor there =P


IMO, it's not a bad system...you can probably do a little better, but it's not terrible either. Have you factored Windows in as well? Cyberpower, unlike Dell or something, doesn't include that by default.

[Maguspk]

I am going to get Vista from my school for 10 bucks, as far as the HD logic goes I just heard that 10k offers a big performance increase which is why I chose it. If it isn't that big of an increase maybe I'll just go with the 7200 then? I just don't want my games being slow because they are on a 7200 RPM HD when all my other hardware is trying it's best. Like the whole weakest link thing, if my HD can only seek data so fast, no matter how good my processor/video card/etc are they will be limited by how efficient and quickly the HD can get to that data. So while the video card may necessarily offer a performance increase it won't be dragging down my PC necessarily, whereas the HD possibly could.

Maybe I should go with their default HD and just buy a second HD off of newegg or something.

[Olo401]

I am going to get Vista from my school for 10 bucks, as far as the HD logic goes I just heard that 10k offers a big performance increase which is why I chose it. If it isn't that big of an increase maybe I'll just go with the 7200 then? I just don't want my games being slow because they are on a 7200 RPM HD when all my other hardware is trying it's best. Like the whole weakest link thing, if my HD can only seek data so fast, no matter how good my processor/video card/etc are they will be limited by how efficient and quickly the HD can get to that data. So while the video card may necessarily offer a performance increase it won't be dragging down my PC necessarily, whereas the HD possibly could.

Maybe I should go with their default HD and just buy a second HD off of newegg or something.

Ah yes, the weakest link thing is true. A faster-seeking drive will indeed move data faster... but in this case your bottle-neck is the transfer rate being 1.5MB/sec instead of 3MB/sec.

It's a bit of a catch-22, unless you get a SATA-300 10Krpm drive.

[Maguspk]

Ah yes, the weakest link thing is true. A faster-seeking drive will indeed move data faster... but in this case your bottle-neck is the transfer rate being 1.5MB/sec instead of 3MB/sec.

It's a bit of a catch-22, unless you get a SATA-300 10Krpm drive.

Can you look at the options it gives me on the website and pick one? It's just the first button on the left "Intel Duo Core" custom build or whatever. Thanks.

[Jaffar]

I went ahead & played around a little bit- I'd suggest clicking the special tab, then going with the Mega Special III configurator- this has the bonus of free shipping. I first built a rig that came in at $926 bucks- but then I bumped up the vid card and a few other tweaks to get a system that came in at $1036- but since this one is over $999, you get an instant 5% off with promo: INSTANT so it came to $984. Now, I kept cheepo keyboard/mouse which you can drop off another ~$20 or so. I ended up going with a 500 GB HD- one downside of not going through new egg is that these guys don't offer 32MB versions until you go with the 1TB option. Anyway, this is what I put together:

*BASE_PRICE: [+565]
CAS: Apevia X-Dreamer Mid-Tower 350W Case w/ Window & Temperature Display [-30] (BLACK COLOR)
CASUPGRADE: NONE
CS_FAN: Default case fans
CPU: (Sckt775)Intel® Core™ 2 Duo E8400 CPU @ 3.0GHz 1333FSB 6MB L2 Cache 64-bit
CD: (Special Price) LG 20X DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW DRIVE DUAL LAYER (BLACK COLOR)
CD2: NONE
CABLE: None
FLASHMEDIA: INTERNAL 12in1 Flash Media Reader/Writer (BLACK COLOR)
FA_HDD: None
FAN: INTEL LGA775 CERTIFIED CPU FAN & HEATSINK
FREEBIE_RM: None
FLOPPY: NONE
FREEBIE_OS: None
HDD: Single Hard Drive (500GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 16MB Cache 7200RPM HDD)
HDD2: NONE
IEEE_CARD: NONE
KEYBOARD: PS2 MULTIMEDIA INTERNET CONTROL KEYBOARD (BLACK COLOR)
MOUSE: Logitech Optical Wheel Mouse (BLACK COLOR)
MODEM: NONE
MONITOR: NONE
MONITOR2: NONE
MOTHERBOARD: ($10 off Mail-in Rebate) MSI P43 Neo3-F P43 Chipset LGA775 Supports Core 2 Duo CPU FSB1333 DDR2/800 SATA2 Mainboard w/GbLAN,USB2.0,&7.1Audio [+39]
MEMORY: (Req.DDR2 MainBoard)4GB (2x2GB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory [+100] (Corsair or Major Brand)
NETWORK: ONBOARD 10/100 NETWORK CARD
OS: Microsoft® Windows Vista™ Home Premium w/ Service Pack 1 [+104] (64-bit Edition [+19])
PRINTER: None
PRINTER_CABLE: None
PRO_WIRING: None
POWERSUPPLY: 580 Watts Power Supplies [+55] (SLI Ready Power Supply)
RUSH: NO; READY TO SHIP IN 5~10 BUSINESS DAYS
SERVICE: STANDARD WARRANTY: 3-YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY PLUS 24/7 LIFE-TIME TECHNICAL SUPPORT
SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
SPEAKERS: NONE [-5]
TEMP: NONE (AS SHOWN)
TVRC: None
USB: Built-in USB 2.0 Ports
USBHD: NONE
VIDEOCAMERA: NONE
VIDEO: ATI Radeon HD 4870 PCI-E 16X 512MB DDR5 Video Card [+189] (Major Brand Powered by ATI)
VIDEO2: NONE
VIDEO3: NONE
WNC: NONE

[Maguspk]

Alright, I think I can get a much better deal on newegg actually since the HD options on cyberpowerpc really aren't that great and I really want a 10,000 RPM HDD for my OS and games and a big secondary for other stuff that doesn't necessarily need to be as fast as possible.

So I've got this so far, the only thing I am missing is a case and power supply but I want to keep it under 1000 bucks, currently I'm at 894 dollars with about 130 bucks in mail-in rebates, so I've got some breathing room for a decent case and power supply. Thanks in advance again.

Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor - Retail
164.99

EVGA 123-YW-E175-A1 LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 750i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
Original Price: $179.99
You Save: $5.00
$174.99($144.99 after $30.00 Mail-In
Rebate)

ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro 92mm CPU Cooler - Retail
Original Price: $36.99
You Save: $10.00
$26.99

SAPPHIRE 100245L Radeon HD 4850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
Original Price: $169.99
You Save: $15.00
$154.99($134.99 after $20.00 Mail-In
Rebate)

Western Digital VelociRaptor WD1500HLFS 150GB 10000 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive (bare drive) - OEM
$179.99($159.99 after $20.00 Mail-In
Rebate)

Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
$59.99

SAMSUNG Black DVD Burner with LightScribe - OEM
$27.99

2 x CORSAIR Dominator 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail
Original Price: $72.00
You Save: $20.00
$52.00($22.00 after $30.00 Mail-In
Rebate)
$44.00 total

Total: 893.93
Mail-In Rebates: 130.00
Total with MIR: 763.93

Oh ya, is the motherboard compatible with the video card I've selected? I noticed a "nvidia north bridge" thing on the description and I'm wondering if that means it only supports nvidia video cards or is it totally unrelated? I also didn't go with the cheaper ram, 2x2GB Corsair XMS, for like 22 bucks because they sounded cheap and they were slower DDR 800 PC2 6400 iirc). I figure the extra 22 bucks for 4 single sticks will out perform the 2x2GB simply due to speed.

[Shuemue]

That's a much more sensible option than that pre-built bullshit. You're not an idiot, you'd be insane to pay some guy $200 to do what you can do yourself in 2 hours. I think that board should be fine, but personally I'd nab one of the new range of Gigabyte boards.

[Maguspk]

How does this look for the motherboard? I didn't go up from this to the more expensive versions because I saw that the memory standards jumped up to DDR3, one for a similar price had DDR2 1300 as the memory standard but I think that would mean I'd need to overclock my RAM to 1300 from 1066, not sure if that's necessarily a good idea, so I just defaulted to this one:

Newegg.com - GIGABYTE GA-EP45C-DS3R LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - Intel Motherboards

Also, since my other stuff seems to be ok, any recommendations for a case and PSU? Preferably around the 100 dollar range but not totally stupid looking and with plenty of ventilation. Even a company suggestion is good because right now I don't know what the best options for a case are. Probably going to go with a Rosewill or Sigma Shark PSU though.