Best PLD gear at 75

[Neosutra]

Shadow/Defending Ring are definitely tops for idle on PLD, no doubts there.

I still don't see it for the Valhalla Helm. Bahamut's Mask is still better than it, Hydra Salade too. The body, to me, is the only piece of real value and it's not a full-timer either (thanks Ares's Cuirass for complicating Paladin!).

Also, Sattva is easily replaceable. It is one of those pieces that is fantastically situational for stuff like cure cheats. To me, it is one of those pinnacle Paladin pieces because it offers some great stuff and when you crunch numbers on Paladin as I do, the advantages become clear. That being said, a Bloodbead Ring replaces it really well when you need another 30+ HP ring. You'll lose enmity, but really, that's not impossible to makeup these days with cure swaps, potential weapon skill damage, and skillful use of job abilities and Flash.

As for Shadow Mantle: I don't own one and I bid a very low amount of points on it and never win. I don't really care either. It's not worth it to me. Why? I do not think it is the best idle backpiece at all. It's certainly in the top three, but it's far from first. Boxer's Mantle offers more stuff when "idle", and Valor Cape boosts the potential of Paladin by offering Enmity and HP (which we now know factors into enmity as well). The VIT boosts Rampart and the cape has a crapton of defense on it as well. In a bloodtanking situation, I'd still use Boxer's Mantle over it on the premise that +10 to each defensive combat skill will most likely reduce more damage over time than reducing all damage instantly 5% (approximation of Shadow Mantle proc) of the time. You could argue that that 5% could land on a mighty big weapon skill, but most of the time, it will probably just proc on a melee hit (depending on how fast you're TP'ing the mob).

1. Boxers will not offer the DoT reduction of shadow mantle. Shadow mantle is approximately 10% DoT reduction. Due to the nature of shield skill, a shield block (even with aegis), will block at most 85% of the damage from that hit. For a back peice to match shadow mantle in DoT reduction, it would have to increase block rates by 18% for a keonig shield pld, and by 15% for an aegis pld to average 10% DoT reduction and would have to increase block rate by a MINIMUM of 10% just to match the Shadow Mantles ability to get shadows up 10% of the time. 10 Shield skill will NEVER provide you with a 15% boost in block rate, regardless of where your skill is currently. Not to mention shadow mantle is omni directional damage reduciton.

As for your statements of bahamuts mask or hydra salade... Do you not equip swap? Bahamuts mask does NOTHING for you as an idle peice, nothing at all.

Idle in V.helm or Kaiser for DoT redection, or askar/acc head if you want to go for atonements spam. Swap in B.mask for emnity actions, kaiser for shield macro.

Just sounds to me like you dont use any equip swaps at all merona, in which case this discussion is moot for you.

As for Wopa, ya if you are using excal, valor or gigant is a great choice for upping your DoT and keeping decent hp%, but I think i said that in my equip post.

[Grey Jorildyn]

I don't use any visible gear swaps, ever. That doesn't make the discussion moot for me however. My RDM (tank) blinks like a mofo though.

You're also neglecting any bonuses to Evasion and Parrying that the Boxer's Mantle provides. I am not saying they're significant, but I also think you're playing up the Shadow Mantle to be a lot better than it is.

[Neosutra]

I don't use any visible gear swaps, ever. That doesn't make the discussion moot for me however. My RDM (tank) blinks like a mofo though.

It does make the discussion moot if we are talking about "best pld gear" as a whole (meaning including gear swaps).

Get blinkmenot and stop wasting the good gear you have on mages that cant keep up. Use what you have to the fullest.

What would you call a rdm that didnt blink?

[Grey Jorildyn]

Being the best Paladin does not mean you have to blink all the time. Ask anyone in my linkshell who holds hate well and who doesn't. I don't blink and I keep hate very well against SA+Gekko barrages, manaburning Tiamats, and Cannonball armies. Gear swapping can help you maximize, but being as there is an Enmity cap, "maximizing" just means "getting to the enmity cap faster", not "tanking better".

Do you see what I am saying? Can someone else say it clearer so this dude understands? I am not the most forum-articulate fellow.

[Neosutra]

Being the best Paladin does not mean you have to blink all the time. Ask anyone in my linkshell who holds hate well and who doesn't. I don't blink and I keep hate very well against SA+Gekko barrages, manaburning Tiamats, and Cannonball armies. Gear swapping can help you maximize, but being as there is an Enmity cap, "maximizing" just means "getting to the enmity cap faster", not "tanking better".

Do you see what I am saying? Can someone else say it clearer so this dude understands? I am not the most forum-articulate fellow.

I understand and your communication is fine. We have a disagreement that has been had on this forum many times. There are however a few problems with your arguemnt. You assume tanking ability > someone that gear swaps... What about someone that can tank well and gear swaps?

How much better of a tank would you be if your emnity actions could have 20 more emnity in them? How much better hate could you hold if you took 15% less damage through a fight? How much more atonements could you spam if you used the proper haste/acc swaps when able?

You can rationalize it whatever way you wish, but the simple truth is you are not using the equipment you have to their potential and there is NO reason not too.

"I keep hate fine" is never a valid excuse to not keep hate better.

[Grey Jorildyn]

Again, if you're already at the cap, and I stay there continuously by cure cheating every 10-15 seconds (nearly twice betwen Flash), and I'm not really losing enmity faster than I'm gaining it unless I get hit a lot. It really isn't going to change my playstyle at all. In fact lately I've been using Homam Zucchetto and getting Madrigal instead of Ballad I and just DDing and I still don't lose hate.

I understand what you're saying about skill + swaps being the "best approach" but since there is a cap to enmity, what -I- am saying is there comes a point when swapping 20 enmity is absolutely pointless because you can get to a point where you gain enmity faster than you lose it and when you hit the ceiling, all you're doing is preserving your hate, not building it any longer. The main purpose of Enmity+ on gear is to increase the output of Enmity, or phrased differently, increase your Enmity gained per action. What I am saying is that there comes a point in time (usually within the first 5-7 minutes of the fight for me, personally) that a lot of that Enmity gear no longer functions at its maximum capacity to me (specifically the CE component). That is why I don't bother swapping it in and out. It's not lazy per se, and it works just fine, sure, but I am not using that as an excuse for not doing it. In fact I am not endorsing anyone to do what I do, but for those that ask, I do teach.

edit: And here's a post from the ongoing enmity cap thread also in this section:

Sounds like someone doesn't understand the term "diminishing returns". While 1 enmity garners the same increase in CE/VE no matter the base value, the more enmity you have -> the less significant this addition becomes as a percent increase of what you already have. That's the definition of diminishing returns. The more you have to begin with, the less amazing it is to stack even more. You don't have to encounter a cap for this to occur.

Double Attack, Attack, Accuracy, Enmity gear... all diminishing returns.

Haste, Physical Damage -%, Magic Damage -%... all increasing returns.

I think this is my point.

[Neosutra]

You're ignoring the point and assuming I have some misunderstanding about there being an emnity cap.

Example:

You idle in bahamuts mask. Lets say throughout a fight you get caught with shadows down and get hit about 10 times out of 100 (AoE wipes shadows and stuns for example). During that time, lets say you take 15% more damage than the other pld that was idling in a proper damade down setup. Your total emnity is reduced for each time you take damage, that is added to the already natural decay. Now add that lost emnity to the fact that you dont utilize all the emnity peices you could use to get BACK to the cap faster, and your overall hate suffers.

Idling in damage reduction (and thus macroing in other builds for emnity/haste/whatever) isnt about hitting the cap faster, it is about maintaining your proximity to that cap on mobs that arent going to be nice and let you keep full shadows up and just hit your cure3 swap macro over and over.

Also, per your argument, once youve reached the hate cap, you shouldnt wear any emnity, as you're no longer worried about hitting the cap fast, you're just maintaining. You're arguement doesnt make sense and is nothing more than an attempt to justify not playing the job to the fullest.

Now before you respond, I am not saying you are a fail pld. Ive seen your posts and your gear and your LJ and would say you know your job and have some decent gear. I am however stating that you can push that potential up by a good margin, and a unwillingness to do so only dampens what you are capable of doing.

And for the guy that posted emnity gear has decreasing returns: Yes it does, but it isnt negligible returns.

[Grey Jorildyn]

OK whatever. I'll just tank my way, and you can tank your way. Swap all the gear you want and pretend that you don't have mages that play on consoles and stuff. Have them make macros with just your name in them and such. It doesn't really bother me whatsoever if you tank a certain way. Just don't tell me how to play my job when I think I do it pretty damn well and anyone not jealous or blind on Titan can tell you that same.

[Valisk]

Gonna have to agree with Neo here. Merona you are an excellent PLD and I often come to you (and Neo) for gear advice, etc. No one is questioning your ablility to hold hate (I see you defending that a lot in your posts). Neo is simply saying that you aren't playing to your maximum potential (even tho you are so much better than 95% of the PLDs whether you swap or not). And w/ BlinkMeNot out, the excuses are dwindling away. Since you put all that time and effort into your job, why not expect the same from your mages? Blinking isn't an excuse for either side.

[drwaffles]

Except for when the mages in question play on consoles, aren't comfortable using BlinkMeNot or are JPs who shouldn't be expected to try and figure out the English Windower/plugins. You talk as if mages are obliged to use BlinkMeNot just to accommodate their self-centered tanks who could potentially still do a fantastic job without blinking out every two seconds if they have an ounce of common sense.

It should never be implied that a tank who doesn't blink in and out is being lazy or intentionally gimping themselves, it's like saying that a mage who doesn't swap out 10+ pieces of gear for every spell is automatically inferior to one that does.

Edit: to clarify, I use BlinkMeNot and Windower macros for all my jobs, but that doesn't mean I expect everyone else to do the same.

[Valisk]

Well I can see this turning into that big discussion again, but I didn't get all my pld goodies just to see them collect dust. I'll leave it at that.

[Grey Jorildyn]

Yeah I don't want to see this go that route either. I don't use blinkmenot and I don't expect others to either. It's hard not to defend hate holding ability because that iscore to Paladin and is always at the root of these arguments.

Valhalla sucks IMO, case closed lol

[Neosutra]

Yeah I don't want to see this go that route either. I don't use blinkmenot and I don't expect others to either. It's hard not to defend hate holding ability because that iscore to Paladin and is always at the root of these arguments.

Valhalla sucks IMO, case closed lol

In your opinion, which is based on not using half the gear you have.

Im sorry, but console or not, there is no excuse to sacrifice ability for lazy mages. Yes my mages have my name in their macros, and no it didnt take more than 3 seconds to put it there.

Lets go back to the head example:

You use: 8 emnity 32 def head.

I use: 8 emnity, 40 def, -5% damage taken, 4% haste, 15 vit, 4 str, 7 shield skill head peice, all in one.

Because I gear swap, I get all the benefits as if I had one super head peice that had all of that on it, and you get a trival peice that adds nothing to your idle build.

You can say "ill play my way and you play yours", but if a rdm was arguing with you about never gear swapping and pulled that line, you would call them gimp.

Im sorry, but in todays game, not gear swapping IS gimp. If you are a melee that doesnt swap gear for WS, you are gimp or lazy. If you are a mage that doesnt gear swap for enfeebles/buffs/resting you are gimp or lazy. And finally, if you are a pld that doesnt gear swap for emnity/damage reduction at a minimum, you are either gimp or lazy. You can attempt to justify laziness or resistance to change via not wanting to offend your mages, but the truth is: Get better mages. You cant apply this standard to melee and mages and say "lulz we dont compare that to pld because then our mages might have to alter their macros!"

Sad to see you have half that nice gear if you dont plan to use it.

[Thorny]

In conclusion..

I lotted 2 pieces of valhalla to make excuses about visible gear swaps when someone else could have used them properly.

[Cerb]

homam is useless imo

[Grey Jorildyn]

In conclusion..

correction: I BID on two piece of Valhalla, one which I do use, and stated as such in my posts above. I use the helm for supertanking and "oh shit" set when solo'ing stuff (which I also mentioned).

Not using "half" my gear lol. Half is very incorrect. I use ALL my gear at one point or another, none of it goes to waste whatsoever. I only bid on gear I know I am going to use and sometimes, it only has a specific use to me. "Shit's situational" right? I think that has been the motto of this game since ToAU at least. I don't have to use every piece for every fight. Heck, I don't even have enough inventory to carry ALL my Paladin gear, do you? If you do, I could say that you not having some of the stuff I have makes you gimp, couldn't I?

While I'm at it, I should swap in Koenig Shield for tanking Cerberus right, since I can intimidate it? Or use Dragon Killer earrings when I'm tanking Fafnir, but only when it is attacking me and not any other time. How far are you gonna take gear swapping exactly?

Got any other cheap shots for me? Seriously. You people take this gear swapping shit over the top.

[Neosutra]

Ya, naming shitty equip swaps for intimidation as a means to justify not swapping is a great argument.

And just to clarify, what would you say about a rdm that never changed gears?

Also, to answer your question: No i dont carry all my pld gear, I leave resist builds in mog house. But I do carry a MDB gear set around for magic attacks.

[Thorny]

I'm not even a paladin, I tank on NIN and RDM. The fact remains that you lotted(Bid on, whatever? It's still taking an item that other people could have taken.) an extremely good idle piece to use for divine might and solo, and won't use it for tanking because you're stubborn as hell.

[Avinor]

I'm not even a paladin, I tank on NIN and RDM. The fact remains that you lotted(Bid on, whatever? It's still taking an item that other people could have taken.) an extremely good idle piece to use for divine might and solo, and won't use it for tanking because you're stubborn as hell.

We had a string of like... 5 Valhalla helms. One was pure freelot. The others don't get used much either, so you can drop the lootwhoring charges. We want Forks, not more helmets.

[Neosutra]

Im not really concerned with wether merona deserved her gear, as Im not attacking their ability/merit. I really just want to know what you all and merona would say about a rdm that never gear swapped?