Best Melee-Tank?

[Cream Soda]

Actually, Neo, I'm interested in see'ing some pics of ur mnk gear. I've only seen your 4/5 usu from screen shots, but not the rest of it.

[Neosutra]

Actually, Neo, I'm interested in see'ing some pics of ur mnk gear. I've only seen your 4/5 usu from screen shots, but not the rest of it.

I'm too embarrased to post it mostly because I am missing some main peices (besides usu body Q.Q)

I tp in:
Destroyers or Hades (merit or low man, or sometimes hades if eating meat at mamool)
Usu head
Shura body
Amemet+1 (I use amemet over foragers due to constantly lvling other jobs and I hate having 2 almost identical back peices sitting in my safe)
Black Belt
Chiv chain Q.Q holy crap gimp
Usu hands (I tp in these the most, but have an "attack up" TP macro that I use relic+1 hands instead)
Haidate
Usu feet
Acc rings
Ethereal/Brutal
Grenade/Tiphia

WS:
head: I actually leave usu on for this Q.Q. More acc than shura for 2 less str.
Body: Shura for AF, osode for DK/Howling
Hands: Usu hands during acc based AF, Relic+1 hands during attack based AF (2 macros)
Waist: Potent belt
Legs: Usu legs
Feet: Usu feet
Earrings: Swap out brutal for spike
neck: WS gorget

Obvious improvements (not counting my god damned usu body):
Shura+1 head
Shura+1 legs (I could probably swap usu legs for shura now and use attack hands more in AF instead of usu, but still playing with a build that gives me full TP return more on average)
Faith torque (0/alot, and really tired of camping this shit)
Black tathum: LS sells it anytime we get it, and just have too many other placed to spend 15 mil gil other than 2 more acc =/
Toreader ring (to replace my 5 acc ring)

Im also trying to get a hades+1 crafted, but no luck thus far.

I will probably just end up using PCC over torque due to sheer frustration with faith and the ability to use PCC on other jobs.
Im not actively looking to upgrade to shura head/legs+1 yet, as I am working on Burtang and all my superfluous gil goes there.
Black tathum will be out of reach till LS gets about 4 more drops >.>

So my real improvements on mnk are finishing Usu body and replacing my first ring with toreaders. I love my mnk, but I just dont have the gil/time to make it as "complete" as my pld is.

[Cream Soda]

That's not bad at all. Only real concern I see is the Chiv, which isn't too bad. The way I handle Usu hands and Bkote is Usu hands when focus down Bkote when focus up (but if its smalltime mobs thats acc is capped, i just fulltime the bkote).

As for Shura head+1, I wouldnt' waste the gil unless u were getting it for another job. Hissho hachimaki is ftw on asuran. And the amemet, don't worry about it lol. The only reason I even have a forager's is because it was a gift. 1 str is the absolute last thing I'd spend money on to upgrade.

Also, don't give up on JoF, its a badass neck

[Neosutra]

Im uncertain as to wether to give up usu hands for relic+1 or kote in most situations though due to added evasion and counter (I usually always have hate in meripo and salvage). I might start using relic+1 hands during focus, but my main question is wether to put it in AF build or not Q.Q.

As for Hissho Hachimaki, Ive been meaning to pick one up, even have a pop, just been really busy. Faith can suck a dick though, seriously. Ill keep at it =/

My only dissapointment with mnk is:

1. No benefit from dual weild, yet no 2 handed benefits or grips.

2. I find my damage lacks in dyanimis or mobs that are higher lvl and/or high defense.

For low man events/limbus/salvage/assault/merits however, almost nothing tops a good mnk for DoT/tanking ability.

[Cream Soda]

I look at it this way, focus is 30 acc (with af crown). that means you only need to be at 75-80% acc to put you to 90-95%. So if you're unsure, on ws, I'd use them during focus on ws as well (I have multiple asuran builds for varying acc). And if you're not at a minimum of 75% acc to begin with, why are you eating meat?

[Wolfknight]

MNK and SAM are pretty equal, and as a MNK myself I actually put SAM over MNK in these kind of situations, especially a good SAM. Funny thing is, I was just thinking about this exact same issue today.

Generally MNK is great at keeping shadows up due to counterstance. SAM depends on third eye which has more luck involved, but third eye stripping TP/AoE moves aside, even if third eye fails, SAM has the ability to throw on some "oh shit" gear and take hits like a pro without the lowered defense penalty associated with counterstance, for that 10-15 seconds until third eye is up again.

That's something that MNK can't do as well due to how counterstance works. They can put on "oh shit" gear too, but they will still take quite a hefty amount of damage. In that respect, a bad luck with a TP move while putting on new shadows will at best drain MP, and at worse one-shot the MNK.

SAM has more reliability in those situations.

Other comparisons/contrasts include MNK's subtle blow vs SAM's TP gain + self SC + WS (which is good damage with low TP given to the mob), both having decent evasion, and both can counter for more damage. SAM also gets more DD ability depending on it's sub, MNK gets nothing on the DD side from /NIN.



MNK can use a boost, not on the DD side, but defensively. Guard improvements anyone?

I feel the same way cause personally speaking I feel sam does much better job of than mnk in this kinda of stuff[though I am lacking Black Belt still], even for stuff where /nin is must, I'd still rather take sam/nin than mnk/nin, Since I can fall back on seigan/TE to put shadows w/o risk of high damage while counterstance kills your defense, which is why my monk is now on semi-retired status.

[Yugl]

SAM/NIN allows for for Third Eye before the Ichi recast which is useful for tanking

[Tsuko_Asura]

Why is everyone speaking as if Counterstance is a burden you're carrying <_<

If its that debilitating, turn it off?

[fishstix]

Too advanced for this section of the forums

[Sanjiyan]

MNK/NIN without counterstance is not that much different than a WAR/NIN, and afaik counterstance makes the MNK/NIN take much less damage overall (even if they get hit hard when they get hit) than a non-counterstanced MNK/NIN.

Unless of course the mob waits until MNK is trying to get ichi up to use a TP move, which seems like the norm more often than not.

SAM definitely has some advantages going for it that most other jobs don't have, in addition to being the strongest DD class today. Then again maybe I'm just bitter that 2-hander update really put MNK behind and the first significant change to MNK since 2004 is lolfootwork.

[Reapz]

and the first significant change to MNK since 2004 is lolfootwork.

More like insignificant change amirite!

[Neosutra]

Mnk didnt get left behind, 2 handers caught up a bit.

[Cream Soda]

Mnk didnt get left behind, 2 handers caught up a bit.

This

[Fridell]

MNK/NIN is extremely good at keeping up damage while being able to tank. It's definitely a good option for low manning stuff where you're likely to be the only melee. Loved tanking as MNK and wish I was able to use it more before I quit.

I see NIN/WAR more as a job meant for bigger/longer fights. Their damage isn't nearly as good as a MNKs so any fight would take considerably longer. I haven't used my NIN in ages, and would prefer MNK in almost every situation.

SAM/WAR, if done correctly, can be an extremely good tank, too. Sort of relies on luck with Third Eye though. If our tanks ever died I'd try to back-up tank as SAM and usually did well enough. I'd still prefer MNK over SAM though.

With each of these jobs, you really need a good set up with a variety of gear to get the best out of each job.

This is good, mostley, though the part about NIN/WAR isnt nearly as good is false. NIN can keep up with great MNKs quite good actually, I see this being mentioned alot, that NINs cant keep up damage as good as MNKs, WARs and whatnot, this is not true at all! What ppl must remember is that it is way easier for a MNK & WAR & SAM to do great damage with less good gear requirements compared to a NIN, but if MNK & NIN with smiliar "great" gear, the difference isnt so big as ppl think...

On another note, yea hell, use Counterstance, learn to use it and play with it, its GOD, people are afraid of using this and I dont know why, probably cuz of shitty MNKs like with everything else in this game.

[Cream Soda]

This is good, mostley, though the part about NIN/WAR isnt nearly as good is false. NIN can keep up with great MNKs quite good actually, I see this being mentioned alot, that NINs cant keep up damage as good as MNKs, WARs and whatnot, this is not true at all! What ppl must remember is that it is way easier for a MNK & WAR & SAM to do great damage with less good gear requirements compared to a NIN, but if MNK & NIN with smiliar "great" gear, the difference isnt so big as ppl think...

On another note, yea hell, use Counterstance, learn to use it and play with it, its GOD, people are afraid of using this and I dont know why, probably cuz of shitty MNKs like with everything else in this game.

I personally don't think nin is all that good in terms of damage. I had a 2 brd (one with relic horn), rdm, drg, and me as mnk/nin, and kikou nin/war (Turban, Kik/perdu,haub+1,usu shoes, byakko's, ect) on trolls last week. I parsed in the lower 36ish percentile, the drg parsed in the high 35%s, the wyvern parsed about 3-5% and the rest went to the nin.

[Sanjiyan]

I just think all the one-handers need a boost (not fully offensively, mind you, maybe more JAs for MNK and NIN) since the 2-hander update. A little unfair that 2-handers has the upper hand in both average WS damage, spike damage, and TP gain, and equal in terms of dmg per attack round and really close in DoT as well.

MNK is still king, but only king of the 1-handers. I do believe a good 2-hander can consistently surpass any 1-hander DD.

[Tsuko_Asura]

I personally don't think nin is all that good in terms of damage. I had a 2 brd (one with relic horn), rdm, drg, and me as mnk/nin, and kikou nin/war (Turban, Kik/perdu,haub+1,usu shoes, byakko's, ect) on trolls last week. I parsed in the lower 36ish percentile, the drg parsed in the high 35%s, the wyvern parsed about 3-5% and the rest went to the nin.

Not that I'm disagreeing with your overall point, but I think the fact that you beat the Dragoon is evidence enough that parses aren't always indications of the superior job.

[Sanjiyan]

Technically the DRG beat him, though it's not perfectly clear since I know Vegetto has good gear and DRG may have average gear. On trolls too, so the margin would be wider in DRG's favor if it was on birds, but trolls are a more neutral mob.

If we assume DRG is the weaker of all the 2-handers, then it would be more favored to the 2-hander with a good WAR or SAM at the helm.

[Cream Soda]

Drg had
Blue Mezraq/Pole Grip/empty/Tiphia
Ace's/Pcc/Brutal/Assault
Aurum/Homam/Rajas/Toreador's
Forager's/Swift/Homam/Homam

I'd place a good drg over a sam easily (unless its tomoe sam at bird camp). Also keep in mind that its mnk/nin vs 2hander/a sub that actually does something offensively.

I've yet to been outparsed once by a 2hander/nin

[evilpaul]

I still don't see why the 2h jobs needed a large accuracy boost or should have one over 1h ones. Being able to eat meat in addition to a getting bunch of free Attack seems a little unfair.

As far as the NIN vs. MNK thing... I've got both at 75 and pretty well geared. My MNK blew my NIN out of the water before getting BB. With the same buffs as a NIN/WAR I generally pull hate purely from DoT as /NIN.

NIN does have a large advantage in the regard that you can NIN/DNC and still have shadows. Which is handy for duoing and trioing things.

Which job would be better to level would depend partially on what type of events you do and what gear you'll be able to get for it. MNK/NIN/SAM all overlap pretty heavily gearwise and need Sky or Salvage stuff to perform at their best.