Best Melee-Tank?

[Kellanved]

I need to stop bothering with these types of posts. So much willful ignorance abound though, in particular, your posts vegetto. First off, based on observations and experiences over the years, I’d say this is pretty much correct:

This is good, mostley, though the part about NIN/WAR isnt nearly as good is false. NIN can keep up with great MNKs quite good actually, I see this being mentioned alot, that NINs cant keep up damage as good as MNKs, WARs and whatnot, this is not true at all! What ppl must remember is that it is way easier for a MNK & WAR & SAM to do great damage with less good gear requirements compared to a NIN, but if MNK & NIN with smiliar "great" gear, the difference isnt so big as ppl think...

While experiences will and does vary, fridell’s comment is generally accurate. Here are some of your precious MNKs:

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2.../kellparse.jpg
Job in order - BRD, MNK -destroyers-Usukane set, RDM, NIN-kikoku, SAM-yoich(abnormal performance due to various reasons?) BRD
Location: Jade Sepulcher
Support: MarchX2, MinX2<> MarchX2, Min/Mad(lurkers)

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...kellparse2.jpg
Job in order – MNK-destroyers-standard equipment(Includes BB, proper shuras unless noted otherwise), BRD, MNK-destroyers- partial usukane/standard equipment, NIN-Kikoku, RDM, COR
Location: Jade sepulcher
Support: March/Min, Chaos/Fighters

Concerning the relative place of DRG in the “hierarchy”, all things being equal, the job can’t out perform WAR or DRK, let alone SAM. Now, I don’t have extensive experience with DRGs, but an experience that I did have recently generally indicated as much.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...kellparse3.jpg
Job in order – NIN-kikoku, MNK-destroyers-Ufeet(other questionable equipments&performance), BRD, DRG-Gungnir-drakesbane-Homams-askars, Wyvern.., RDM, BRD
Location: Jade Sepulcher
Support: MarchX2, MinX2, MarchX2, Min/Mad(lurkers)

Parses of course are not some absolute measure of performance. However, standard issues with parses aside, they do provide some general idea of output and the results above are typically consistent across the parses that I’ve seen over the years, particularly in relation to MNKs.

[Sanjiyan]

That's some good data. Only complaint I have is that in all the parses, it's destroyer MNK vs relic so-and-so. I mean, if you want conclusive (and I use that term loosely since nothing is ever conclusive in FFXI parses) evidence NIN can do as well as a MNK, either go both relic or senj/perdu vs destroyers.

I do see that it's more evidence pointing towards the weaker 2-hander still beating 1-hander jobs.

[Kellanved]

That's some good data. Only complaint I have is that in all the parses, it's destroyer MNK vs relic so-and-so. I mean, if you want conclusive (and I use that term loosely since nothing is ever conclusive in FFXI parses) evidence NIN can do as well as a MNK, either go both relic or senj/perdu vs destroyers.

I do see that it's more evidence pointing towards the weaker 2-hander still beating 1-hander jobs.

Well, the point was to illustrate what fridell pretty much hit on. I haven't had the opportunity to see a proper Relic mnk in action, but by most accounts it's not that much better than detsroyers. Relics being relics though, in a comparison of top end NIN to top end MNK while I think the mnk/nin will come out ahead, the difference will be miniscule to echo fridell. (Those were all MNK/NIN in the parses by the way, if the location didn't give that away before someone starts discussing MNK/WARs)

And of course there is no doubt that 2 hander are currently at the top of damage outputs with the proper sub. I was pointing out that DRG is most likely to be at the bottom of that 2 hander rung.

[Fridell]

Great input here Kellanved.
And ofcourse my statements was MNK/NIN VS the NIN/WAR, not MNK/WAR (which in my book and from what I have seen basicly destroys most stuff).
And yes, remember that parsers can be off by some values, like someone of the PT didnt get that Erase or that Haste dropped for a good 2 seconds while the mages handled a link and what not etc etc, everything is relative.

Personally Im not that much far behind a fully merited BB MNK, and been on par or beaten up Homam and HQ geared /sniper+1 haub+1 yaddayadda) DRKs and SAMs etc, with great gear when I bring my NIN for stuff like merit, limbus, nyzul, salvages etc etc.

Imo, the big reason MNKs can do more damage is when they Counterstance and play smart with it, and dont fear to counter shit up with shadows down for alittle bit (when this is possible, and Mp and situations allows, aswell as correct mobs being countered).
Also Focus helps alot with this.

That being said, I use my MNK 90% over my NIN for Nyzul, Salvage and stuff, just because that MNK dish out more dmg with minimal equipment while my NIN needs it all to work better with damage output. And the fact that I can pop Fanatics and Counterstance fulltime on bosses in Nyzul, and also Salvage bosses (when I actually get Fanatics from chests...)


I've seen several others on this forum say that NIN and MNK can do "about" equal dmg for many situations aswell, now I dont remember which but one example was for Salvage Chariots, dunno if it was Pchan?

Much more can be said but Im doing Assault atm!

[SamanosukeShiva]

tanking

mnk>sam period

sam/nin?? wtf is this shit, is it just me or sam/nin cast so fucking slow?

fully geared/meritted nin probably will be almost on par with fully merit/gear BB mnk, but jin is way too random compared to asuran fist, sure jin can spike alot of dmg if berserk/DA multiple times, but normal/uncrit jin is just suck.

[Meat]

tanking

mnk>sam period

sam/nin?? wtf is this shit, is it just me or sam/nin cast so fucking slow?

fully geared/meritted nin probably will be almost on par with fully merit/gear BB mnk, but jin is way too random compared to asuran fist, sure jin can spike alot of dmg if berserk/DA multiple times, but normal/uncrit jin is just suck.

finally some sense

[Fridell]

tanking

mnk>sam period

sam/nin?? wtf is this shit, is it just me or sam/nin cast so fucking slow?

fully geared/meritted nin probably will be almost on par with fully merit/gear BB mnk, but jin is way too random compared to asuran fist, sure jin can spike alot of dmg if berserk/DA multiple times, but normal/uncrit jin is just suck.

/nod

[Neosutra]

Being a person with a "fully geared" mnk and "fully geared nin", I would have to add that mnk destroys nin DoT in just about every situation, and that is even with mnk subbing /nin. I cant vouch for the play style of that mnk that lost parse to the relic nin, so I wont say he wasnt eating the right food and/or using counterstand properly, but even with kikoku I rarely ever meet a nin that can keep up. There are very few events in game I chose to go nin over mnk due to pure survivability and DoT.

[Ayn]

Shura+1 head
Shura+1 legs (I could probably swap usu legs for shura now and use attack hands more in AF instead of usu, but still playing with a build that gives me full TP return more on average)

Have you considered the head piece from the La Vaule BC? Or would rather not drop the Acc from Shura head?

1. No benefit from dual weild, yet no 2 handed benefits or grips.

2. I find my damage lacks in dyanimis or mobs that are higher lvl and/or high defense.

For low man events/limbus/salvage/assault/merits however, almost nothing tops a good mnk for DoT/tanking ability.

Yeah, the no real benefit from NIN really irks me. I don't get to use my MNK nearly as much as I'd like (..and it's probably the best geared / merited out of all my jobs) but it is fun to use when I can.

[Neosutra]

Would never use that helm for AF, but makes a nice Jin peice. We've had a few drop, I may pick one up next round.

[VZX]

sam/nin?? wtf is this shit, is it just me or sam/nin cast so fucking slow?

Hasso/Seigan make cast time 50% longer.
But SAM/NIN can get no hit at all with 3E and ichi/ni, if you're doing it right.

[Ayn]

Would never use that helm for AF, but makes a nice Jin peice. We've had a few drop, I may pick one up next round.

Yeah without a doubt, meant more for instances where you might use howling/dragon kick.

[Drunkenmonk]

would gnadbods be better than genbus for fury/dk tho? i know secondary mod but its almost 3x as much. i have both and using genbus atm.