Carnage in India: Hotels Under Siege

[Kaylia]

Link?

Because I read a study last month that my dog was more intelligent than you. No doubt the political influencers that motivate young men to kill themselves and others are intelligent enough to formulate plans, but the average jihadist is a fucking moron.

edit: you posted link that stated terrorist are more influenced by society than mental illness, this has no reflection on intelligence. More misrepresenting evidence.

If that study make as much sense as your arguments, I'm not worried about it.

I posted the closest link I could find in 5 minutes, because I have better thing to do, and finding a specific pages about "terrorism" in the archives of a news website is a bitch. The article said they had higher IQ average, and rarely suffered from mental disease.

[Kaylia]

To say that they are defending themselves seems to imply that we should feel sympathy for what they are going through. Maybe if they stop killing civilians that don't even know who they are and tried focusing on those that are suppressing them, I'd consider it.

By defense, I was refering to this
Defence mechanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not sure to understand why you say defense mechanism imply that we should feel sympathy for them. I just see it as a normal reaction to a threat. A murderer might feel threatened when the police is around him, but none of us will feel sympathy for him. It's the same here.

[Joran]

By defense, I was refering to this
Defence mechanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not sure to understand why you say defense mechanism imply that we should feel sympathy for them. I just see it as a normal reaction to a threat. A murderer might feel threatened when the police is around him, but none of us will feel sympathy for him. It's the same here.

It still implies that they felt threatened by certain events, and it caused them to lash out in ways that they may not necessarily be able to control. So, you're saying that they felt forced into doing this by certain forces outside of them. From there, its not much of a leap to assume they felt threatened by the nationalities of the people they are targeting. And if it weren't a means of invoking sympathy in some small part, then defense lawyers wouldn't use it to plead the case of a murderer, like when they say hes nothing more than a result of his upbringing or the external forces around him in his everyday life drove him to this.

And, in any case, I can't fathom how events on such a level, which are obviously well planned and premeditated by a large group of people, can just be explained away by the phrase, "It's their fault, they made me do it."

[Ghost_Wheel22]

Darwinism

Well that didn't take long at all.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...indiagames.jpg

[Kaylia]

It still implies that they felt threatened by certain events, and it caused them to lash out in ways that they may not necessarily be able to control. So, you're saying that they felt forced into doing this by certain forces outside of them. From there, its not much of a leap to assume they felt threatened by the nationalities of the people they are targeting. And if it weren't a means of invoking sympathy in some small part, then defense lawyers wouldn't use it to plead the case of a murderer, like when they say hes nothing more than a result of his upbringing or the external forces around him in his everyday life drove him to this.

And, in any case, I can't fathom how events on such a level, which are obviously well planned and premeditated by a large group of people, can just be explained away by the phrase, "It's their fault, they made me do it."

The action of being "threatened" is not a synomym of sympathy. It's the reason why he was threatened that might invoke some sympathy.

"It's their fault, they made me do it."

The definition is way larger than this, and it doesn't always mean there was a real threat too. There is a reason why they consider USA a danger and why they are fighting against it. It doesn't have to be a valid reason, but they aren't suicide bombing stuff for fun either.

[Skjie]

Believing your God wants you to kill people is pretty much a mental illness.

[Kaylia]

Believing your God wants you to kill people is pretty much a mental illness.

As opposed to what? Believing that you rights allow you to kill other?

[Skjie]

As opposed to believing your right allow you to kill other?

Please make that into a properly formatted english sentance, I have no clue what you are trying to say.

EDIT: Do you mean death penalty? Because obviously killing tourists is directly comparable to killing convicted murderers.

[Kaylia]

Please make that into a properly formatted english sentance, I have no clue what you are trying to say.

You're saying it's a mental illness to justify killing with religion, but on what basis are you saying this? People go at war for many reasons, and beliefs are always hidden somewhere in their reasoning.

Allah most likely didn't told muslim to go bomb american, so pretending it's the only explanation needed to understand why they are fighting is retarded. It's obvious there is more than a single social factor involved in their actions.

[edit]
And I was talking about war in general, not death penalty. People always go at war to "defend their right". Terrorism is just a fancy name we gave to people fighting a war they can't win against our country.

[Elvis]

Religion plays a role but it's not the main or only reason. It's a source of strength for them as it is for plenty of non-violent, non-batshit people.

The difference is that the terrorists have other things in their life that influence their behavior/etc. This has been well-documented, especially over the past decade.

We don't support popular movements in the ME; we support harsh regimes or puppet governments that favor our economic interests. One of our biggest allies is Saudi Arabia - the MOST fundamentalist Islamic country in the world no doubt. Why? Because they send the oil to New York and London.

However, of course this is no excuse. The Taliban have committed countless atrocities in the name of their Islam (their interpretation). While, their country - Afghanistan - has been torn apart for decades by one foreign army or another, it doesn't excuse the horror they, themselves, unleash on their own people.

We can't simply wash our hands clean of this though. We facilitate the creation of terrorists by our own foreign policy. IMO, we commit terrorism as well.

In the end, I honestly think the people in charge of this country would prefer the ME to be divided and to see Arab governments fragmented. The Arab world is already divided by fanatics/ various sects/ pro-Westerners/ anti-Imperialists/ etc. There's a considerable amount of overlap (all of them hate the US).

I think one of the earlier plans for Iraq was to split it into 3 lesser states. This would undoubtedly smash any nationalistic movements in the region (for how long? who knows). We already tried these shenanigans in Latin America and IMO we failed so I'm curious to see how the next few years (or until Rapture) play out.

It's just a shame so many have to die who just want to live their life in peace - on both sides.

[noblemountain]

a study that showed that the majority of terrorists were of an above average iq and had no mental illness eh? WHO THE FUCK DID THAT TEST? seriously...they go into the desert...join the local terrorist group and start testing? people are fucking retarded. how could you even start to believe this sort of "test" without asking some common fucking sense questions. i'm sure they tested joe shmoe terrorist who's living in the cave in afghanistan right now and not rich "mommy and daddy didn't like america" terrorist living in saudi arabia claiming to be a terrorist.

seriously...people just believe any type of bullshit you package into a "clinical test" to use in their weird logic.

[Kuya]

It still implies that they felt threatened by certain events, and it caused them to lash out in ways that they may not necessarily be able to control. So, you're saying that they felt forced into doing this by certain forces outside of them. From there, its not much of a leap to assume they felt threatened by the nationalities of the people they are targeting. And if it weren't a means of invoking sympathy in some small part, then defense lawyers wouldn't use it to plead the case of a murderer, like when they say hes nothing more than a result of his upbringing or the external forces around him in his everyday life drove him to this.

And, in any case, I can't fathom how events on such a level, which are obviously well planned and premeditated by a large group of people, can just be explained away by the phrase, "It's their fault, they made me do it."

Fundamentalism is almost always triggered by fear, and the argument that one kills because they felt threatened almost never flies in court depending on the cause; take for example people who kill perceived gays because they felt threatened by them.

And this goes well along the line of what i've mentioned before about mental disorders and how they're used ubiquitously as ways to explain things when we don't want to accept any other reasons that implicate any third party's involvement.

[Skjie]

You're saying it's a mental illness to justify killing with religion, but on what basis are you saying this? People go at war for many reasons, and beliefs are always hidden somewhere in their reasoning.

Allah most likely didn't told muslim to go bomb american, so pretending it's the only explanation needed to understand why they are fighting is retarded. It's obvious there is more than a single social factor involved in their actions.

[edit]
And I was talking about war in general, not death penalty. People always go at war to "defend their right". Terrorism is just a fancy name we gave to people fighting a war they can't win against our country.

Hmm, I'm willing to make the case that anyone who starts a war is mentally ill as well. However, there is a special class of screwed up for people who's invisible friend tells them to kill.

[Eggroll]

a study that showed that the majority of terrorists were of an above average iq and had no mental illness eh? WHO THE FUCK DID THAT TEST? seriously...they go into the desert...join the local terrorist group and start testing? people are fucking retarded. how could you even start to believe this sort of "test" without asking some common fucking sense questions. i'm sure they tested joe shmoe terrorist who's living in the cave in afghanistan right now and not rich "mommy and daddy didn't like america" terrorist living in saudi arabia claiming to be a terrorist.

seriously...people just believe any type of bullshit you package into a "clinical test" to use in their weird logic.

Or they could just test detained terrorists...? So much for using common sense.

[guartz]

They're muslims without any political power. What is always the motive in this case?

Oh I can help.

Hey westerners, stop helping evil zionists kill palestinians. Also, gtfo off our holy land, and some other crap like that.

British translation:

We are gonna use shock tactics to sway your course of actions, because we have no other means to petition our grievances.

[noblemountain]

Or they could just test detained terrorists...? So much for using common sense.

'cause i'm sure they're just ready and willing to participate. jackass. results can't be taken from prisoners and used because they'll do/say whatever they want 'cause they're not willing participants.

[guartz]

as far as the testing, I'm sure the people who did commit the crimes weren't born as terrorists and had records and such.

Although it does sound fishy.

[Elvis]

'cause i'm sure they're just ready and willing to participate. jackass. results can't be taken from prisoners and used because they'll do/say whatever they want 'cause they're not willing participants.

Why not ask whoever cited the study to produce the link? You could then take a quick glance at it yourself and know for sure, yea?

I'm sure there are plenty of mentally ill soldiers/terrorists/politicians/plumbers/etc. I think what we're talking about is whether terrorism in and of itself is due to mental illness.

Sorry, I don't buy that. I'm not saying there aren't a lot of crazy fuckers out there with an ancient comic book in hand trying to kill everything in sight but I do believe there's more to it than that.

These people don't simply wake up one day and decide to go on killing sprees and the act of trying to understand their motives/maturation from blank-slate human being to killer/suicide bomber can only help us. It doesn't mean we're agreeing with their actions.

[Kuya]

'cause i'm sure they're just ready and willing to participate. jackass. results can't be taken from prisoners and used because they'll do/say whatever they want 'cause they're not willing participants.

You do not understand how they work. What these psychiatrists (notice i'm not saying psychologists) look for in the detained's behaviour for markers which might allude to mental disorders, if they can not find any, then there is obviously no mental disorder.

Asking them questions is one of the things they can do, but what they will most likely do is observe their behaviour, granted, cultural differences are a huge barrier but that's more of an argument against the existence of a mental pathology than against them not being insane.

[noblemountain]

don't get me wrong...i don't think that most of them are insane at all...or idiots. just closeminded and easily led. i just love how people always have some magic study that proves their point, no matter what the argument.

i've been in iraq/afghanistan and fought/captured taliban forces...real terrorists who're training and fighting full time. the majority of those people were idiots...but probably not crazy. most of them barely spoke their own language, couldn't read or write, and were just dirt poor people that were raised believing in a better life that they could achieve if they just did what some mythological being said. no different from the crazy ass people blowing up abortion clinics in the US...just more dedication.

the people leading the terrorist groups are intelligent people with their own agendas that usually isn't the same as the admitted one.