Random Question Thread

[Plow]

Trying to help a friend come up with a better build for 2's, dk in 2 dps team.


Does this look decent?

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft


Any major flaws specifically?


It's kind of a ghetto setup, but basically pretty much nothing can kill me 1v1 so I'm just trying to get him to where we can always kill something before he goes down.

[Eaglestrike]

Why go into the frost tree? You want to use death strike, not obliterate as a blood DK, ESPECIALLY if you're in PvP and going to be taking damage all the time.

I'm not sure Mark of Blood is really worth it in arena. It can very easily be dispelled since it doesn't get the 30% dispel protection. Priests and paladins can dispel it, rogues can cloak it, basically you'll only get full use out of it against war/druid, and it'll only proc 6-10 times with a warrior, so only 12-20% of your max health in heals.

I'd also skip scent of blood, death coil is a blood DK's runic dump and I'm not sure it's best to put more than 1 point in Morbidity to improve its damage. You'll gain more out of getting AP from armor, imo.

[Rokku]

I wouldn't use that build at all to be perfectly honest. Heart Strike is gimp as hell in PvP and Arena, so you're speccing into a tree that automatically takes it's biggest hitting strike out of the equation. If you want a PvP spec you'll want to run with something more along the lines of this.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft


This is the build that almost every high ranked DK in arenas uses at the moment, and I can speak from personal experience with using it that it's an excellent build. Stay away from blood for arenas.

[Plow]

I don't really know much about DK.

Went frost for lichborne, cuz, well, he's bad and doesn't interrupt, and sits on top of me against priest lock and shit like that. Also was thinking oblit would be worth using when he's at high health for the crazy dmg starting the burst off.

Mark of blood is a no brainer, cuz of mage/rogue, shaman/rogue, druid/rogue, etc.


Scent vs BA I'm not sure. 3 in BA is about 230ap for him I think. He's pretty much slowed 100% of the time when freedom's not up because I simply do not have the mana to contend with mage/rogue/dk etc. through cleansing. So, I'd like to keep his RP high.


I actually have even been considering just having him go frost, if he could keep shit at 50% speed for me even when he's getting kited it would be a whole new ball game.

[Plow]

I wouldn't use that build at all to be perfectly honest. Heart Strike is gimp as hell in PvP and Arena, so you're speccing into a tree that automatically takes it's biggest hitting strike out of the equation. If you want a PvP spec you'll want to run with something more along the lines of this.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft


This is the build that almost every high ranked DK in arenas uses at the moment, and I can speak from personal experience with using it that it's an excellent build. Stay away from blood for arenas.

The thing is we're basically a do or die team, we need the biggest burst possible and he's just not getting shit done as unholy.

Blood dk's in particular just destroy him while he accomplishes basically nothing.

[Rokku]

If by do or die you mean double DPS, then Blood is the worst thing you could do, he'll get fucking rolled.

[Rokku]

Also, you're saying he's getting rolled by Blood DKs as frost and failing at UH? I'm not trying to be an ass, but maybe you should find a different 2's partner. There's no more iwin specs for DK in terms of arena, if a DK can't play it right you won't go anywhere.

There's not a whole lot of suggestions that can be made, the only time you'd run blood in arenas is if you were wearing full ToGC25 gear and just running in and doing DS>DS>ERW>DRW>BS chain, it's like a PvE Bladestorm spec in arenas, it only works if the characters you're playing against are seriously bad or poorly geared.

That UH spec will win matches though.

[Plow]

He's getting rolled as unholy, we haven't tried frost.

And really the issue isn't him getting owned, it's him not getting anything done at all.


I know he's bad, I'm trying to help him get some gear, it's the only reason I'm even doing arenas.

I guess what I was basically thinking was he sets up his diseases then does 2x heart strike into 3x oblit during the silence and stun burst with drw, and then just dumps on death coil and hopefully something dies.

[Rokku]

I guess what I was basically thinking was he sets up his diseases then does 2x heart strike into 3x oblit during the silence and stun burst with drw, and then just dumps on death coil and hopefully something dies.

HS suffers a 75% damage reduction in arenas because it's a cleave. If you were using a UF strike as Blood you'd be using Death Strike since it's easily able to overpower Oblit as blood.

Burst as Blood just doesn't work in arenas like it does in PvE.

[Eaglestrike]

HS suffers a 75% damage reduction in arenas because it's a cleave.

Are you sure about that? I'm pretty sure I threw out 5k+ HS's in the 70's bracket on my DK. It's possible they were only normal attacks, but I don't think they were. Maybe against pets this damage reduction is in, but I'm not aware of any AOE-attack penalty in arena against other players. Otherwise Bladestorm would be lol...right?

[Rokku]

It may have been one too many Faction Champs matches to the head and Champion's Aegis affecting HS mucking up my brain, but I can't seem to find anything to support what I just said, so I suppose I need to back down on that point.

Still doesn't change the fact that you're trading off easier disease upkeep, snares, a pet, AMZ, stun/fear reduction, bone shield and a host of other benefits for nothing but a loss as blood. We could argue this all day, but it doesn't change the fact that blood is a terrible arena spec. DRW hasn't been effective in arenas since they changed it to half duration half damage, the burst from it is entirely survivable. The benefits and ease of unholy are just that much higher.

Blood is an excellent PvE spec, it's just not one that was designed for arenas.

Go hit up arena junkies or just check the brackets for high ranked DKs if you don't trust what I'm saying about the specs for arena.

[Plow]

DRW hasn't been effective in arenas since they changed it to half duration half damage, the burst from it is entirely survivable.

I dunno, I don't think it's all that survivable when you add in another dps that throws in 9 seconds of lockdown.


Basically all I know is we fought a hpal+blood dk the other day, we made the pally bubble in the first 4-5 seconds, the dk got me low, too, so I bubbled about 3 seconds after their pally...

Then the blood dk switched to my dk and killed him through div sac and 2 crit heals in about 10 seconds.

So I decided to consider it while trying to figure out a build for him.


And I'm really not trying to find a cookie cutter build for him-- we run a retarded setup that demands very different things than your basic healer + dk. Those same people who I'd be "copying" from AJ would just laugh at the idea of a double dps with virtually no secondary cc and no ms. Let alone if they heard my partner inform them that he can't interrupt anything shorter than a 2 second cast because of his latency.

I'm basically just looking for major "wtf is this" individual talent and glyph choice errors.

[Rama]

Why is ArP suddenly more valuable for UH DK in 3.3?

[Tomino]

Anyone that Faction Changed could tell me what's the Argent Crusade bug about?
Do I lose all of my Argent reputation and need to start again with the apprentice quests (so those quests + becoming representive for the 4 cities all over again)?

I'm considering becoming Ally but being Exalted with Argent and champion for the 4 cities, it'd feel quite annoying to lose it all.

[Eaglestrike]

Blood DK is viable in double DPS 2's, imo. It's certainly not ideal, but if all you want is a team that can possibly reach 2.2k if you try really hard, I think it's capable. In S6 as protribution/blood I got my highest 2's at 2182 just doing 10 games with someone I had gotten to 1800 with earlier (he went to arena with a rl friend and I got 300 rating with a resto druid before we tried out a few games at 2150 and almost broke 2200) and both of us could have been a lot better. I was even in mostly tanking gear, not dps/PvP gear which makes a HUGE difference when facing casters and in the damage I do. I'm willing to bet blood dk/protribution could be towards the top of 2's with the right players behind it.

The key strategy being you "outlast" people, with cooldowns/stuns to help survive and the blood DK self-healing (and the pally with bubble + heal) if you hit your buttons right you can beat double dps teams and you can usually do enough damage to keep a healer on defensive when it's healer/dps and you oom the healer, lol.

[Guitarman]

Why is ArP suddenly more valuable for UH DK in 3.3?

because scourge strike is going to have its damage based on 2 variables; a physical attack (which is where ArPen comes in) and a shadow attack. those two will add up to what your SS damage will be.

[Plow]

Blood DK is viable in double DPS 2's, imo. It's certainly not ideal, but if all you want is a team that can possibly reach 2.2k if you try really hard, I think it's capable. In S6 as protribution/blood I got my highest 2's at 2182 just doing 10 games with someone I had gotten to 1800 with earlier (he went to arena with a rl friend and I got 300 rating with a resto druid before we tried out a few games at 2150 and almost broke 2200) and both of us could have been a lot better. I was even in mostly tanking gear, not dps/PvP gear which makes a HUGE difference when facing casters and in the damage I do. I'm willing to bet blood dk/protribution could be towards the top of 2's with the right players behind it.

The key strategy being you "outlast" people, with cooldowns/stuns to help survive and the blood DK self-healing (and the pally with bubble + heal) if you hit your buttons right you can beat double dps teams and you can usually do enough damage to keep a healer on defensive when it's healer/dps and you oom the healer, lol.

We're not even doing that, I'm trying to get this kid to 1800 lol.

Let me put it this way:

I've been top 10 in 2 brackets.

My friend Zanyu has been top 10 in all 3, and was 2600+ on bloodlust in 3's when he transferred off...


We couldn't get this dude to 1800 in 3's during season 5 as hpal/war/dk... (granted, zanyu was in pretty much entirely 70 gear including s4 weapon).



Our general strategy against healer/dips is to stun asap, if they trinket survive 30 seconds then kill, if they don't trinket kill them right there between hoj/strang/shield/gnaw. (mind freeze is literally completely out of the picture, he cannot do it)

Today we fought a dk/druid. I got the druid out of stealth and stunned him right off the bat. My partner is nowhere to be found. DK has him slowed on other side of map, so I tell him to beat on dk a bit. This drags the druid across the map. Hammer comes up with the druid right in front of me and my partner about 10 yards behind me. I start my burst... he chains the druid, druid gets away, he goes down.

I'm like "uh did you really not use death grip that entire match?"

"I did use it, on the DK"

... /facepalm


He's also twice in the last 2 days died from 100-0 in less than 10 seconds with div sac up and multiple heals... to single dps teams.


Anyway, yeah, amz/bs etc don't seem to be helping. I'm just thinking have him go full blood and start spamming death strike right off the bat at this point. I'm trying to work with him on rune management, but that's just such a thing where you develop a feel for it, and can't really be taught.

I'd be happy right now if we could end up with me in a 1v1 in even half of the games we're losing, because I'd win 99% of those at this rating level. I can't even count how many times I've been in 1v2 and killed one guy and had the other low only to finally run out of steam.


The other possibility I've considered is a full frost build with IT and Frost Strike glyphs. That would basically free up all his runes for control, and allow him to dump frost strike constantly on anything in range and hb/dc anything that's kiting well.




oh also, when talking about it he said he couldn't do a raw blood/unholy build because he needs the frost fever on his chains as blood, since heart strike would be his primary slow instead of IT

legit reason yeah?

[EternityEnd]

Anyone that Faction Changed could tell me what's the Argent Crusade bug about?
Do I lose all of my Argent reputation and need to start again with the apprentice quests (so those quests + becoming representive for the 4 cities all over again)?

I'm considering becoming Ally but being Exalted with Argent and champion for the 4 cities, it'd feel quite annoying to lose it all.

Your reputation stays when you faction change, only quests reset.

[Norellicus]

So if quests reset then you'll probably lose champion status

[Rokku]

oh also, when talking about it he said he couldn't do a raw blood/unholy build because he needs the frost fever on his chains as blood, since heart strike would be his primary slow instead of IT

legit reason yeah?

I...guess? I don't really know what to say at this point, because you've already made it painfully obvious that this DK is beyond any reasonable definition of fail in arenas.

If you're dead set on having him run blood, have fun, but he's honestly not going to be successful with any spec if he plays that poorly, end of story.