Random Question Thread

[Eaglestrike]

I think it's kinda silly to drop DK for the Chill of the Throne debuff. DK's avoid 20% less and paladins will take full damage from 20% of attacks now, it hurts all tanks equally really. If anything warriors get the biggest boost because shield block isn't hurt at all and is now even more OP in comparison.

I also don't see the crazy obsession with EH. Typically when fights get hard it's not because the tanks are taking too much damage, it's because the raid isn't moving/switching correctly. I'd rather increase the DPS of my tank and thus increase the DPS of the raid (because a tank doing 500 more DPS is still the raids overall DPS increased by 500) because even not doing hard modes killing faster is almost ALWAYS a good thing. STR is the best stat for increasing tank DPS (at least for paladins) and has the added benefit of some mitigation.

[Tomino]

I'm trying to pick Trinkets for my Prot Paladin but I'm quite confused between what Rawr and Tankpoints say to me.

Givem I'm now using 2x Brew Trinkets, Tankpoints says Black Heart and Triumph Glyph are crap compared to those. While Rawr list Black Heart as, overall, one of the best trinkets in game, and so the Triumph one.
I'm puzzled...

[Eaglestrike]

Go a single brewfest + triumph emblems, keep both brewfest trinkets around for certain fights (heavy magic fights, like say maybe twins or Lady Deathwhisper)

[Norellicus]

I think it's kinda silly to drop DK for the Chill of the Throne debuff. DK's avoid 20% less and paladins will take full damage from 20% of attacks now, it hurts all tanks equally really. If anything warriors get the biggest boost because shield block isn't hurt at all and is now even more OP in comparison.

I also don't see the crazy obsession with EH. Typically when fights get hard it's not because the tanks are taking too much damage, it's because the raid isn't moving/switching correctly. I'd rather increase the DPS of my tank and thus increase the DPS of the raid (because a tank doing 500 more DPS is still the raids overall DPS increased by 500) because even not doing hard modes killing faster is almost ALWAYS a good thing. STR is the best stat for increasing tank DPS (at least for paladins) and has the added benefit of some mitigation.

On the note of the former, Icecrown Radiance technically hurts the two shield wearing tanks more than DKs and Druids, simply because of how the combat table works and how much less of a Warrior or Paladin's avoidance is based on that dodge value vs their other avoid/mitigation effects.

To put it simpler, the more different combat rolls you have for avoiding a full hit, the more painful CotT is, since you lose a larger portion of one of your rolls (and that roll is instead converted to hits taken). Druids are actually the least hurt avoidance-wise, since they have exactly two possibilities: dodge or get missed.


On the latter, EH isn't necessarily a reaction to "I'm taking too much damage"; it's simply a question of "How long can I survive between heals" -- statistically speaking, avoidance increases this value too, but it's a gamble, whereas increasing your health and raw mitigation by armor is a guaranteed increase 100% of the time (in the case of health, anyway; obviously armor doesn't help with magic).

[Meph]

wow, I totally forgot AGI gave armor. well, in that case Im still with you, just changing my focus

gemming hit/exp is ofcourse priority if you dont have cap already. I always make sure I get that through the gear itself since you gain more upgrade with stamina through gems then gear (if compared with other stats)

and I dont think gaining DPS should be something a tank should worry about. our job is to make it easier for the healers to keep us alive. the DPS-classes should take care of the damage

[Acturus]

Where is the quest chain that transitions the Icecrown terrain? When the patch first went live, my wife and I both ran out with 3 other friends to do some of the instances, and what she saw and what I saw were radically different at the tower. She told me she did the quests that shifted that area, but I can't seem to find a quest giver that will send me down that quest path.

Anyone able to shed a light?

[Eaglestrike]

It rarely makes a big difference, whatever little armor/health extra you get. From my experience as a healer, in that I'm not a very good one, is that I normally don't spam the tanks with heals if they're not getting hit a bunch, but most others do. So a lot of healers will be spamming tanks regardless of if they need it or not, so taking 100 less damage from that attack just means 100 less overheal from a healer. In big chunks, armor/health is obviously the stat to go for, that is the main priority of course, but I don't think the small bits really make a big deal.

As well, for a paladin tank with a non-paladin healer (or only one for multiple tanks) buffing my STR as high as I can not only gives me BV for mitigation, STR for DPS, SP for DPS but SP for a stronger sacred shield for mitigation. So STR would be:

10 STR = 12.5 STR (talents + blessing) = 6.25 BV x 1.3 = 8~ BV per attack blocked
12.5 STR x 0.6 = 8.5 SP x 0.9 = 7.7 damage absorbed per 6s via Sacred Shield.

So basically, a 10 STR gem (which is str/stam, of course) is roughly 15-16 less damage taken every 6s if you assume you'll get 1 block in the 3~ attacks per 6s, which is a low estimate as I have a 43% block rate.

Now, also take into account that Chill of the Throne has allowed Blizzard to lessen the damage a mob does each hit (Saurfang doesn't hit that hard really) and I believe on weaker hitting bosses STR is a potentially stronger mitigation stat.

About the DPS, like I said 500 DPS from a tank is just like 500 more DPS from a DPS. More DPS is ALWAYS good, especially when it gets to hard modes. Maybe I shouldn't emphasize this too much as it may get paladins nerfed since they're the top DPS tank that I've seen, but I think it's a wonderful advantage and a great way to allow tanks to do a bit more for a raid. I don't really go out of my way to improve my DPS, but essentially if I'm choosing between two pieces of equal ilvl gear, I choose the one with more STR than the one with more avoidance, generally.

[Jodwahh]

Where is the quest chain that transitions the Icecrown terrain? When the patch first went live, my wife and I both ran out with 3 other friends to do some of the instances, and what she saw and what I saw were radically different at the tower. She told me she did the quests that shifted that area, but I can't seem to find a quest giver that will send me down that quest path.

Anyone able to shed a light?

The chain that starts the phase change is in the Argent area at the base of the cliff before scourgeholme. You need to do every single quest there including the ones just outside the castle. Pretty sure thats what you need.

[Acturus]

The chain that starts the phase change is in the Argent area at the base of the cliff before scourgeholme. You need to do every single quest there including the ones just outside the castle. Pretty sure thats what you need.

That's not the one with the guy sitting at the top of the legde who sends you on a few fetch quests and then has a number of 5-man follow ups, is it?

[Jodwahh]

Ohhhh you mean the phase shift down by the citadel and infront of it. You need to do all of the ebon blade Q line including the ones that run down by the west edge of the map. Now I think about it there is a guy sitting on top of the ledge with a gnome DK next to him I think.

[Jodwahh]

It could be something to do with the argent tourny too, I know there was a bug concerning phaseing by the citadel to do with that. You might aswell just do every quest in Icecrown though, you will get a solid amount of cash from doing them all.

[Acturus]

I've only just started the Argent Tourney stuff (jumped straight to Sons of Hodir rep for the shoulder enchants). I'll work through it and see where it leads. If memory serves, the ICC quests do a good job of leading you to the next questing areas.

[Onorgul]

What you're talking about is almost certainly Argent Tournament stuff. The Valiant and Crusader dailies phase the area in front of the Citadel for some jousting matches.

[Norellicus]

They're only phased like that while you actually have the quests though, I can fly over it after doing them for the day and I see the nerub guards and necrolichs patrolling.

[Plow]

It rarely makes a big difference, whatever little armor/health extra you get. From my experience as a healer, in that I'm not a very good one, is that I normally don't spam the tanks with heals if they're not getting hit a bunch, but most others do. So a lot of healers will be spamming tanks regardless of if they need it or not, so taking 100 less damage from that attack just means 100 less overheal from a healer. In big chunks, armor/health is obviously the stat to go for, that is the main priority of course, but I don't think the small bits really make a big deal.

As well, for a paladin tank with a non-paladin healer (or only one for multiple tanks) buffing my STR as high as I can not only gives me BV for mitigation, STR for DPS, SP for DPS but SP for a stronger sacred shield for mitigation. So STR would be:

10 STR = 12.5 STR (talents + blessing) = 6.25 BV x 1.3 = 8~ BV per attack blocked
12.5 STR x 0.6 = 8.5 SP x 0.9 = 7.7 damage absorbed per 6s via Sacred Shield.

So basically, a 10 STR gem (which is str/stam, of course) is roughly 15-16 less damage taken every 6s if you assume you'll get 1 block in the 3~ attacks per 6s, which is a low estimate as I have a 43% block rate.

Now, also take into account that Chill of the Throne has allowed Blizzard to lessen the damage a mob does each hit (Saurfang doesn't hit that hard really) and I believe on weaker hitting bosses STR is a potentially stronger mitigation stat.

About the DPS, like I said 500 DPS from a tank is just like 500 more DPS from a DPS. More DPS is ALWAYS good, especially when it gets to hard modes. Maybe I shouldn't emphasize this too much as it may get paladins nerfed since they're the top DPS tank that I've seen, but I think it's a wonderful advantage and a great way to allow tanks to do a bit more for a raid. I don't really go out of my way to improve my DPS, but essentially if I'm choosing between two pieces of equal ilvl gear, I choose the one with more STR than the one with more avoidance, generally.

I also don't see the crazy obsession with EH. Typically when fights get hard it's not because the tanks are taking too much damage, it's because the raid isn't moving/switching correctly.

Go find some of the warrior qq threads about ToGC, there's a lot of screenshots in there of shit like melee 20k, impale dot 15k, impale 25k, all in way less than a second. (and occasionally a shot of considerably worse)

Now think about Marrowgar the first week.

Now remember that Faction Champs got nerfed on normal... but not on heroic. It's safe to assume Marrowgar heroic is going to make week 1 Marrowgar look like a pansy little bitch.


Yeah, EH is going to remain the top priority for high end tanks until we see heroic Arthas and have sufficient EH to survive the worst of his burst in a worst case scenario.


If you're talking about normal mode, then meh, do whatever. As they've said, easy modes are for almost everyone, and that includes people that will make waaaay worse decisions than str gems on a prot pally (which is not a bad decision at all, if you're worried about threat more than EH).


Personally, I want a frostwyrm and I'm too lazy to do gladiator again on top of my newfound pve nerd-ism, not to mention shadowmourne ;p

[Siniroth]

The phasing issue near the stone is because of the Rider of Frost/Blood/Unholy quest line

[Meph]

well, tanked ICC10 lastnight on the DK, and I can honestly say I didnt notice the -20% the slightest....so yeah...fuck you loladin-alt.

even managed to finally upgrade my weapon :D
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40406 => http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50798

[Drunknmunky]

Is it wrong to give up FFXI for wow? Reason I ask cuz I have been very tempted to switch.

[Norellicus]

WoW v XI posts are generally verboten.

But in the spirit of your question, personally I'm still paying for both because I can't seem to get rid of XI. My desire to play it has never specifically waned, but my desire to play WoW has waxed considerably, especially now with the story of the Lich King slowly coming to a head.

The fact that the organized groups I was a part of in XI were largely full of people who don't know their head from their feet and have to be barked at several times to get instructions across didn't help either, though I can't say that's entirely remedied in WoW...it's just easier to coast on that behavior there.

Of course the guild I'm in currently is starting to try my patience so I'm slightly inclined to go start playing XI again for a while lol. Problem I have there is that I just can't seem to keep a steady forward rhythm on stuff to accomplish all the things I want to, and I'm not driven enough to plod along in slowpoke solo mode all the time.

[Correction]

Is it wrong to give up FFXI for wow? Reason I ask cuz I have been very tempted to switch.

Trial's free and as long as you start on a server where you already know people, you shouldn't struggle much starting fresh.

But if you're going to give up an MMO look into abandoning the game genre entirely. Not kidding.