Random Question Thread

[Kongolo]

ok i will, what about redoubt?

thx

[Kaylia]

Redoubt is great. It proc a lot, and 30% more block is considerable damage reduction (around 3k dmg with a decent shield) . It would be a bad idea to skip it.


The last 6 row of prot trees need to be maxed, with the exception of spiritual attunement (only need one). They are all extremely useful passive trait and skills.

[Kongolo]

ok what about this?

[Arcana]

For prot this is how i normally run http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sVZE0xA0uMusIzfdxf0bb

[Norellicus]

The mana reduction was just because I needed a floater point to get down to Vindication and halfassing Imp. BoM didn't seem as useful since retadins will usually have it 2/2. You could put it there if you want.

8sec Judgment fucks up 969. You can do it but it tends to throw off your rhythm somewhere along the way.

And Divine Sacrifice improves Sacred Shield, not Holy Shield. I don't think it's practical for a tanking paladin to attempt to bubblesac in any raid circumstance unless they're an offtank that is guaranteed to not be taking boss hits when the sac is needed, which is why I didn't take it in the build I put up.

Good call on Crusader over Seals of the Pure, I latch onto SotP automatically for some reason since it's T1.

PoJ is a waste of two points that are already hard to come by considering that Tuskarr's Vitality already exists and is plenty of mobility already (and is only slightly worse than the alternative tank enchant). You'll be able to fit it into some L85 builds I'm sure but at 80 there's just not room.

[Arcana]

i find that 8 sec judgement is good for that early threat build up, but i do find it messing up the rotation a little bit, but at that time is a judgement call to use it immediately or not. tbh there are many different tweaks you can make to any pally builds to suit you play, its all about figuring what suits you best.

[Eaglestrike]

8sec Judgment fucks up 969. You can do it but it tends to throw off your rhythm somewhere along the way.

8s judgement has absolutely zero negative effect on the 96969 rotation. GCD's are 1.5s, you're always using an ability, so by the time you go to judgement again you'll still have 1s left of a gcd to wait before you can even press judgement. But on fights where you won't always be in range (rotface ooze, PP, LDW, Marrowgar, etc.) having the 10-yard move to do something is useful to have.

[Norellicus]

8s judgement has absolutely zero negative effect on the 96969 rotation. GCD's are 1.5s, you're always using an ability, so by the time you go to judgement again you'll still have 1s left of a gcd to wait before you can even press judgement. But on fights where you won't always be in range (rotface ooze, PP, LDW, Marrowgar, etc.) having the 10-yard move to do something is useful to have.

Hmm, true. I forget the GCD ticks at the same time as ability cooldowns so the net difference is null. I never particularly found myself lacking that point, but yeah it's certainly put to better use there over the 1 point in benediction.

[Eaglestrike]

Hmm, true. I forget the GCD ticks at the same time as ability cooldowns so the net difference is null. I never particularly found myself lacking that point, but yeah it's certainly put to better use there over the 1 point in benediction.

Exactly. 8s judgements is normally useless. But 1 pt in anything else there is even more useless.

[Falaras]

I would use http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sZV0tAbuMusIufdxfMobcNG for a non raiding build still. You shouldn't need Divine Guardian but sometimes pugs just fail and you can help mitigate some of that fail by directing the damage to you. I also used to run the Salv glyph which I found amazing for 5 mans (Since out TPSing people in 5 mans is no problem) but once you move to raids it becomes worthless. Vind is really nice when you are the only tank so definitely take that and PoJ is pretty obvious.
Oh and please take Judgements of the Just if only just to give the mages you run with +12% more damage, its really a big deal.

[Siniroth]

Oh and please take Judgements of the Just if only just to give the mages you run with +12% more damage, its really a big deal.

This sentence confuses me, what does Judgments of the Just have to do with mage damage?

[Norellicus]

Torment the Weak.

[Halion]

you have to furiously fucking mash 1 and click your feet, without regard for alternating properly, to make it to 40 catches in 15 seconds. If you do it properly you should hit 40 with 0 seconds on the clock. It's that exactly timed.

You should also find a quiet spot in dalaran where nobody tends to linger, like the picnic benches behind the alliance inn or the room you get teleported to when you finish Higher Learning.

@Torch Juggling I've actually seen a number of people complaining about it and thinking it was changed since last year because they're having trouble; I can't speak to what would cause that because I don't remember even trying it last year, but I want to add that with only 10 torches the above advice is really bad advice. That's what I was trying to do at first and I didn't get the achieve until I slowed down enough so that I was never trying to throw a torch when all 10 were already up. Clicking as fast I can I got to a hole of like 2s with no torches in my bag and it ruined the whole thing.

[Kaylia]

ok what about this?

Spiritual focus was useless in pve (wasnt bad solo on ret). None of your spell has casting time. If you need healing, it will come from seal/judgement of light.


Improved might isn't bad for 5man, but king does the job more than enough. Get talent from the 3rd row instead (pursuit of justice, vindication, conviction x1). Improved hammer of justice is sweet in pvp, very helpful if you solo a lot, but completely useless in raid, and little use in 5man. if you needed the point, that's fine I guess.

The mana reduction was just because I needed a floater point to get down to Vindication and halfassing Imp. BoM didn't seem as useful since retadins will usually have it 2/2. You could put it there if you want.

8sec Judgment fucks up 969. You can do it but it tends to throw off your rhythm somewhere along the way.

And Divine Sacrifice improves Sacred Shield, not Holy Shield. I don't think it's practical for a tanking paladin to attempt to bubblesac in any raid circumstance unless they're an offtank that is guaranteed to not be taking boss hits when the sac is needed, which is why I didn't take it in the build I put up.

Good call on Crusader over Seals of the Pure, I latch onto SotP automatically for some reason since it's T1.

PoJ is a waste of two points that are already hard to come by considering that Tuskarr's Vitality already exists and is plenty of mobility already (and is only slightly worse than the alternative tank enchant). You'll be able to fit it into some L85 builds I'm sure but at 80 there's just not room.

I know that's why you tossed your point there, it's just that I've been waiting on my judgement cooldown relatively often in raid environment. There is also situation where you skip a few moves (off tanking at saurfang for example) and this point allow you to pull a new rotation. Same deal when Hammer of wrath mix your card. It doesnt really throw off your 69696 rotation, but it doesnt have any benefit either if you're using it. The benefit of that point is very small either way (you don't really run out of mana in important situation, and 69696 is what you do most of the time), so meh.


It was a typo on the shield, I always confuse both name. Sacred shield can easily be used before any encounter since it lasts 60 seconds, and you can usually reapplies it during downtime (when there is a gimmick, when you're out of reach...etc). Doubling its duration allow you to keep a decent uptimes, and block 100 more dmg 10 times over 1 min. It's particularly useful when you solo old raid, but I wouldn't ignore it completely for current raid. And well, it's just a bonus to divine sacrifice that can be insanely powerful when used properly (saved people who missed spore during heroic festergut, save healers who failled at running away from sindragosa's aoe, considerably reduce the dmg of exploding ghosts on lk, act as a 2nd hand of sacrifce with a dmg reduction..etc.


Tuskar vitality is 8% speed enhencement. Pursuit of justice is 15%. This 7% is decent, especially since the difficulty in most fight involve unforgiving movement dynamics. However, it will be even more noticeable if your speed is lowered by a debuff (47% instead of 40% is a large boost). I'm not saying tuskar isn't a fine buff, but we are looking at :
PoJ: 7 stamina 7%speed
Tuskar: 2% crit
I personally would take the speed over the crit in raid environment, since moving faster will partially make up the loss of some threat and dmg.

[Kaylia]

Oh and please take Judgements of the Just if only just to give the mages you run with +12% more damage, its really a big deal.

It's supposed to work with torment of the soul since an early 3.x update. Are you sure you're still losing the damage increase, because that skill is pretty damn useful most of the time.

[Siniroth]

Ah, I didn't realize the minus attack speed counted as a slow, my bad.

[Griffith]

And Divine Sacrifice improves Sacred Shield, not Holy Shield. I don't think it's practical for a tanking paladin to attempt to bubblesac in any raid circumstance unless they're an offtank that is guaranteed to not be taking boss hits when the sac is needed, which is why I didn't take it in the build I put up.

DBS frenzy, festergut when not tanking, BQL if off tanking, sindrigosa while reseting stacks, Professor when not taking to mitigate mutated plague

just to name a few bosses where divinesac is pretty damn useful

[Siniroth]

Even then, you can make a macro that uses the ability then when you click it again it removes the sacrifice buff, but it'll still give the 20% damage reduction raid-wide

[Falaras]

It's supposed to work with torment of the soul since an early 3.x update. Are you sure you're still losing the damage increase, because that skill is pretty damn useful most of the time.

I'm confused as to what you are saying here. Torment the Weak (+12% damage) is triggered by Judgements of the Just and that's the only way you can trigger it as a Paladin.

[Melchoir]

My summoned water elemental just got me killed.

I had my ele out but when I got on my flight mount he didn't go away. He ended up aggroing 5+ mobs but I didn't notice. When I landed to get a quest objective they all swarmed me. Is this normal?