Random Question Thread

[Kaylia]

Let's not consider mana regen factor when you toss up number like this...


I don't care if you derp me or call me retard, but at least, make a solid argument that stand on its own instead of tossing up something ridiculous like that. Every number are relative to many other number and situation. I did not once denied that mitigation help healer's mana, but the proportion are important if you're trying to measure the benifit of something versus something else...especially when you can't put number to certain benefit.



And like I said before, this benefit always existed as long the tank isn't dying. Mana consumption is not, and will never be the only factor to consider.

[aurik]

Oh yes I forgot, every healer is going to use 500% of his original mana bar during a 5 minute fight.

I have made a solid argument: stamina is only useful to prevent the tank from dying suddenly. Tanks are no longer dying suddenly. Therefore stamina is marginally useful.

[Kaylia]

Not every death are sudden, and not all healer run out of mana.

[aurik]

As I said before: now that you've proved that you aren't using critical thought and just repeating things that you have been told in the past, you can stop posting.

[Kaylia]

The sad part here is that you don't realize how weak this "5% per hit avoided" argument is.

[Eaglestrike]

It isn't the only stat to care about, which I'm thankful for. I hated how stamina was the only thing tanks stacked in WotLK. I didn't do it since I wasn't in srs bsns raiding (and you only needed to stamina stack for that stuff really) and now I get to do so without any actual penalty.

And with survival being a big fucking deal I think gemming for avoidance stats will actually be interesting. I just wish I got something to do when I evaded a bunch, like a revenge or something.

[aurik]

The sad part here is that you don't realize how weak this "5% per hit avoided" argument is.

What's weak about it? Avoided or mitigated hits translate directly into mana savings AND cast time savings. Conversely, if you're not on the brink of death, soaked hits do what for you, exactly?

[Kaylia]

What's weak about it? Avoided or mitigated hits translate directly into mana savings AND cast time savings. Conversely, if you're not on the brink of death, soaked hits do what for you, exactly?

No, that part is true and I posted the same thing early in the argument. This is mitigation only advantage.


What matter is the occurence of avoided hit, and their real impact on your mana pool (after every heal tossed to other players and the tank). A raw "5% mp saved" is insignificant if the situation occur rarely, because the benefit of high hp will still overshadow the small amount of mana saved..

[aurik]

WHAT benefit of high hp?

[Diamicles]

WHAT benefit of high hp?

well, for DK tanks at least, the benefit would be a higher amount of damage absorbed by Blood Shield since it uses your total health in it's calculations.


On that note, I'm working on DK tanking, and it seems (at least right now) that the reforging/gemming plan should prioritize Hit > Mastery > Expertise > Stamina. Any thoughts on that from other DK tanks? I've yet to start running heroics (ilv 327 tank gears) and am practicing in normals to familiarize myself in dungeons.

[Norellicus]

well, for DK tanks at least, the benefit would be a higher amount of damage absorbed by Blood Shield since it uses your total health in it's calculations.

Not quite:

Each time you heal yourself via Death Strike, you gain 50% of the amount healed as a damage absorption shield. Each point of Mastery increases the shield by an additional 6.25%.

Since Death Strike heals based on the damage you take, you'd have to either take a woefully low amount of damage, or have a LOT of stamina stacked so that the damage you take is less than 7% of your health. If you want to increase the shield, best way is through mastery.

[aurik]

See, thats the kind of answer that I am looking for. Stam on DK tanks is their mitigation (in the form of self healing), ok, sounds good. Other classes?

Edit: aha further clarification. Much like agi > stam for vengeance TPS for bears, mastery > stam for self-healing for DKs. OK.

Moar information.

[Norellicus]

Agi wins for bears because it like quadruple dips, but yeah, same principle.

[Kaylia]

WHAT benefit of high hp?

I named a few on last page...

Larger hp pool allow everyone to be more conservative in their play style since there is less immediate risk involved. When my hp hit 20%, I will most likely have to pop my cooldown. If my hp is at 35% instead, I might hold back and save it for another time. Similarly, if I see myself or another tank in critical situation, I will toss a Word of glory. This is 10-20k dps wasted and some threat. It's the same deal with healer, they tend to overheal a lot when tank reach critical level (use less efficient heal or simply go over the top).

Secondly,are the healer always going to be able to heal you in time? No lag? No fuck up (miscast)? Not stuck by gimmick? Even if the insta gib might not be as common, I can assure you that no tank will stay in white forever.

Also, having more hp will give healer more opportunity to heal other member. While it's true I might not get insta gibbed, someone else might, and if you have to react quickly, you have to make sure the tank won't be dead by the time you come back to him.

Obviously, in the perfect optimal world where you live in, it won't matter, but in reality, this human factor is present all the time and you can't ignore it, especially when you're talking about a minimal amount of mp saved..

[Thuronn]

U mad Kaylia?

God forbid you're wrong. The world will still keep spinning.

[Kaylia]

Mad about?

[Norellicus]

Kaylia, I suggest you take another look at your healers' mana pools and spell costs if you think the mana saved is trivial. Healer costs are not trivial anymore, that's the whole point of the new healing regimen; healers have to play carefully.

I am personally more in the stamina camp simply because it's reliable survivability; why people always look at any deficit of health as a necessity to return to full (and thus "mana sponging" if your global health is excessive) is a mystery to me. Avoidance is mana savings, but it can't be translated at 1:1 in the economy of the healer/group relationship due to its random nature and the fact that the mana saved may still go unused, making the savings moot. I do understand the point about reaching an excessive boundary where reasonable TTL is being well exceeded and you can simply reduce your overall incoming damage better by adding more avoidance instead, though.

[Thuronn]

Mad about?

lol.

[Diamicles]

Not quite:

I guess what I was thinking of was the healing of Death Strike, which in itself is directly related to the amount of health you have, which then stacks Blood Shield on you as a correlated absorption of the damage you healed yourself with death strike.

Death Strike
A deadly attack that deals 150% offhand weapon damage plus a bonus and heals the Death Knight for 5% of his maximum health for each of his diseases on the target.

which in turn gives you

Blood Shield
Each time you heal yourself via Death Strike, you gain 50% of the amount healed as a damage absorption shield. Each point of Mastery increases the shield by an additional 6.25%.

it makes sense in my head

[aurik]

I named a few on last page...

Larger hp pool allow everyone to be more conservative in their play style since there is less immediate risk involved. When my hp hit 20%, I will most likely have to pop my cooldown. If my hp is at 35% instead, I might hold back and save it for another time. Similarly, if I see myself or another tank in critical situation, I will toss a Word of glory. This is 10-20k dps wasted and some threat. It's the same deal with healer, they tend to overheal a lot when tank reach critical level (use less efficient heal or simply go over the top).

Secondly,are the healer always going to be able to heal you in time? No lag? No fuck up (miscast)? Not stuck by gimmick? Even if the insta gib might not be as common, I can assure you that no tank will stay in white forever.

Also, having more hp will give healer more opportunity to heal other member. While it's true I might not get insta gibbed, someone else might, and if you have to react quickly, you have to make sure the tank won't be dead by the time you come back to him.

Obviously, in the perfect optimal world where you live in, it won't matter, but in reality, this human factor is present all the time and you can't ignore it, especially when you're talking about a minimal amount of mp saved..

^ living in the past.