Random Question Thread

[aurik]

Also lol @ "healers might overheal if i'm down at 30k HP". Yeah one sec queuing up my 120k heal.

[Kaylia]

Kaylia, I suggest you take another look at your healers' mana pools and spell costs if you think the mana saved is trivial. Healer costs are not trivial anymore, that's the whole point of the new healing regimen; healers have to play carefully.

I am personally more in the stamina camp simply because it's reliable survivability; why people always look at any deficit of health as a necessity to return to full (and thus "mana sponging" if your global health is excessive) is a mystery to me. Avoidance is mana savings, but it can't be translated at 1:1 in the economy of the healer/group relationship due to its random nature and the fact that the mana saved may still go unused, making the savings moot. I do understand the point about reaching an excessive boundary where reasonable TTL is being well exceeded and you can simply reduce your overall incoming damage better by adding more avoidance instead, though.

Healing cost isn't trivial, but the fraction saved that come from your gems isn't as big as he is implying, especially not in a fight that is "aoe heavy" on magic damage.

Mana will be an issue in this expansion and mitigation from gears will undoubtedly help more than it did before, but the 1:1 argument annoy me. You simply can't look at raw number without any context and draw such conclusion.

I can definitively see socket bonus being useful this time around with avoidance getting a little push, but stamina isn't going to lose its throne yet imo.

[Saxon]

Sta is good for resto shaman mastery (and even that sucks), and that's about it.
(Ps. if you think healer mana is not a problem then gtfo)

[Kaylia]

^ living in the past.

Better than your dream world where function are limited to 1 variable.


If mitigation ever become worthwhile, I can weigth both side and decide. I'm not sure you can do that when you can't even recognize one advantage to stamina.

[Norellicus]

I guess what I was thinking of was the healing of Death Strike, which in itself is directly related to the amount of health you have, which then stacks Blood Shield on you as a correlated absorption of the damage you healed yourself with death strike.


which in turn gives you



it makes sense in my head

Hmm, where are you getting that death strike quote? That's the way it used to work. It's now a retroactive heal based on how much damage you've taken recently:

A deadly attack that deals 150% weapon damage plus (((330 * 150 / 100))), healing you for 25% of the damage you have sustained during the preceding 5 sec (minimum of at least 7% of your maximum health).

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=49998

[aurik]

How much hp is 1 stam anyway? Like 15? 20?

[Norellicus]

10 base, do your appropriate class/talent multiplication.

[aurik]

So to get the ~15k extra health we're talking about, it requires maybe a budget of 600 rating?

That would translate into several percent of any of the combat stats.

[Kaylia]

How many gems did you calculate? 20?

[edit]

It's a 10% hp bonus (for 150k hp) vs a 7% damage mitigation against physical attack (less the more you have from your gears). This ratio hasnt changed much since WoTLK.


[edit]
And we are comparing a pure stam vs a pure avoidance set...which is kinda stupid imo considering how good color bonus are right now.

[Saxon]

How many gems did you calculate? 20?

[edit]

It's a 10% hp bonus (for 150k hp) vs a 7% damage mitigation against physical attack (less the more you have from your gears). This ratio hasnt changed much since WoTLK.


[edit]
And we are comparing a pure stam vs a pure avoidance set...which is kinda stupid imo considering how good bonus are right now.

Let's break this down simply so you understand:
More hp = bigger breathing room for healers to react.
Bosses do NOT one shot tanks, I've found it safe to let tank sit at 70-80% hp.
Avoidance = less mana spent on heals.
Sta = less avoidance which also means more mana spent to heal, and more hp to heal.

So basically, in a world where mana use matters, avoidance is more useful assuming the tank isn't getting one shotted.
I'm really having trouble seeing how you can argue this so hard, are you even a healer and know how much healing and mana management has changed?

[Kaylia]

Let's break this down simply so you understand:
More hp = bigger breathing room for healers to react.
Bosses do NOT one shot tanks, I've found it safe to let tank sit at 70-80% hp.
Avoidance = less mana spent on heals.
Sta = less avoidance which also means more mana spent to heal, and more hp to heal.

So basically, in a world where mana use matters, avoidance is more useful assuming the tank isn't getting one shotted.
I'm really having trouble seeing how you can argue this so hard, are you even a healer and know how much healing and mana management has changed?

Do you know I already posted these items 2 pages ago? Tell me something news at least....


It doesnt take a master degree to understand that mitigation -> less mana spent. I never argued against that (and I pretty much repeated it in every post). What I'm saying is that what you call "breather" here is far more significant than you or Aurik implies.

[aurik]

10% hp bonus is 15k hp is 1071 stam at 14 hp per stam is ~714 rating points.

Keep in mind that if you mitigate (block/parry/avoid) 30% of incoming attacks, an additional 7% mitigated is actually locally 10% more attacks mitigated. So the diminishing returns is at least partially offset by increasing returns, in the same way as armor value. That said, I don't know what the actual mitigation rate of tanks are at 85 these days.

The returns on stam just seem so pathetic. 10% extra hp is of very little use.

[Saxon]

Do you know I already posted these items 2 pages ago? Tell me something news at least....


It doesnt take a master degree to understand that mitigation -> less mana spent. I never argued against that (and I pretty much repeated it in every post). What I'm saying is that what you call "breather" here is far more significant than you or Aurik implies.

I haven't read it all, but maybe you are just over valuing how much breathing room you need in raids. Got a 180k hp DK tank with little avoidance, and a 165k hp Pala tank who mainly gemmed/enchanted avoidance in raids, guess which one I find a ton easier to heal and dies less?

[Kaylia]

10% hp bonus is 15k hp is 1071 stam at 14 hp per stam is ~714 rating points.

It's 13hp/stam with raid buff.

20 gems*60stam*13hp/stam = 15600hp
20*40parry= 800 parry

Used a piece with 200 parry, checked the number and did x4.

I haven't read it all, but maybe you are just over valuing how much breathing room you need in raids. Got a 180k hp DK tank with little avoidance, and a 165k hp Pala tank who mainly gemmed/enchanted avoidance in raids, guess which one I find a ton easier to heal and dies less?

Possibly, but HP hasn't let me down very often until now. I don't have 165k yet , so yes, my opinion could change.


About the second part of your post, I've hard time believing this is due to gemming. First of all, you have very little freedom over the enchantment and reforging. I'm not even sure where you could get the additional stamina (boot maybe?).

Secondly, a mitigation smaller than 5% would actually be hard to eyeball, so I'm not entirely certain how much you could reach that conclusion from this. The difference is most likely due to the class here, or something else.

[bigrougabagel]

Why do i hear that guy from metalocalypse when reading kaylias posts?

[bigrougabagel]

And a real question. How is it that one manages to get into deepholm without being 82 and taking the portal? I would like to plant my mining/jc dk there but have zero to negative berzillion desire to level it.

[Saxon]

Is crit better than haste now for resto shammys?

[shinoniken]

Is anyone's guild (hardcore, preferably high end) guild recruiting a DK tank for cata raiding? My current guild is going casual and I find myself in the need for a good raiding guild.

[Dryr]

And a real question. How is it that one manages to get into deepholm without being 82 and taking the portal? I would like to plant my mining/jc dk there but have zero to negative berzillion desire to level it.

landing at most mining points below 82 would agro anything in sight, you would end up leveling the thing with all of the fighting you would do starting at 80, and the fights would leave you bandaging/eating after every mining point to prepare for the next.

[Arvin]

Is crit better than haste now for resto shammys?

For now, yes. Absolutely. Haste is more or less a 3rd or 4th stat.

For learning fights and encounters the curve of importance goes something like this;

Spirit > Crit > Int > Haste > Mastery.

Use spirit flasks and food, and when you're starting to get into more and more gear, I'd probably value the following;

Int > Crit > Haste > Spirit > Mastery. Never give up too much spirit, and mastery is pretty terrible. It's only fairly useful for things like Chimaeron where people have low health constantly.