Random Question Thread

[Noobta]

Silvermoon worked thanks. I'll check out TB and Ebon hold some other time I suppose

Ebon hold is DK onry

[Edgie]

So, I started warrior mid decemeber Im 80 today. I thought I was doin alright, get a few compliments when I do dungeons, So I got some 80 gear, Oh Im prot spec till I can dual spec next week, I got the plate helm and greaves from wg bg, i got the savage gladiator chest and shoulders, and a armor plated shotgun. Today I get invited to do Gruul's lair as main tank and some other people commented this was dps gear.
So anyway I m confused and need some help on gear for tanking, dps, pvp and also just general warrior stuff :D

[Guitarman]

Defense, resillience, armor. all 3. 540ish you're uncrittable, stack that armor like mad.

[Chreman]

For protection defense 540 is uncrittable cap for all content, resillience is pointless if you're past this and eats up item budget more than you want it to, so try and avoid it if at all possible. Once you've got 540+ opinions differ here, but avoidance (dodge, parry block value/rating), health and armor is what you want. Strength is good for block value, but it usually comes on gear with the above so don't worry much about it. Expertise is also important, if a piece of gear has expertise along with the above, value it over anything else even if you lose some other stats.

Educate yourself on caps and whatnot, reccomend wowwiki since it lays it out pretty nice. But mostly:

Uncrittable > health > reduce incoming damage > avoid damage all together

Uncrittable is always #1 priority, hands down. You're gonna get hit, so having high health and avoiding spike is what most of your time is spent looking into after uncrittable. Expertise falls in here to avoid a string of parry-hasted hits. Avoidance comes in last because as a tank, at least in a raid environment, you've got a slew of healers spamming you with green numbers anyway, you'll just eat the overheal when you dodge or parry.

[Plow]

For protection defense 540 is uncrittable cap for all content, resillience is pointless if you're past this and eats up item budget more than you want it to, so try and avoid it if at all possible. Once you've got 540+ opinions differ here, but avoidance (dodge, parry block value/rating), health and armor is what you want. Strength is good for block value, but it usually comes on gear with the above so don't worry much about it. Expertise is also important, if a piece of gear has expertise along with the above, value it over anything else even if you lose some other stats.

Educate yourself on caps and whatnot, reccomend wowwiki since it lays it out pretty nice. But mostly:

Uncrittable > health > reduce incoming damage > avoid damage all together

Uncrittable is always #1 priority, hands down. You're gonna get hit, so having high health and avoiding spike is what most of your time is spent looking into after uncrittable. Expertise falls in here to avoid a string of parry-hasted hits. Avoidance comes in last because as a tank, at least in a raid environment, you've got a slew of healers spamming you with green numbers anyway, you'll just eat the overheal when you dodge or parry.

Agree with this for the most part, just adding 2 things basically.

First, don't forget threat in there. Other than Patchwerk, Malygos, Sarth, Maexxna, and if I'm eating locust swarm/ignoring widow's embrace (everyone on BR does both now pretty much every run I go on), Anub and Faerlina, my priority goes uncrittable > threat > health etc. For those fights I just listed, I drop threat priorities near the bottom, except maly where I go enough hp to survive then all out threat.


Secondly, resil is not an entirely bad stat, it's just not as good as other stuff. If you don't have the raw defense gear to reach uncrittable, there's absolutely nothing wrong with using resilience to cover the gap.

[Norellicus]

Resil is a terrible use of itemization for PVE. You're wasting a quantifiable amount of avoidance by using resil for critproofing and it should be avoided at all costs. The only reason it should be on your gear is if you absolutely cannot manage a stopgap via gems/enchants.

[Plow]

Resil is a terrible use of itemization for PVE. You're wasting a quantifiable amount of avoidance by using resil for critproofing and it should be avoided at all costs. The only reason it should be on your gear is if you absolutely cannot manage a stopgap via gems/enchants.

I do not disagree, at all.


Just pointing out that it's livable if it's the only way you can get the job done.

[Ishido]

So, after another week, arena seems fucked in a whole new way. Is anyone else getting ridiculous points for losses/wins? We're losing over 10 a lot, and almost never (like 3 out of 20) winning more than 10. Also losing points for a winning record. I've read on the oboards about the hidden ratings being changed somehow, but I'm wondering if anyone else has seen some stuff that "shouldn't" be happening.

A lot of it is the retarded comps (DKs, Shunters, hooray), but we're winning more than losing and the whole system just seems kind of wrong at the moment.

[Plow]

You're playing people lower rated than you.

Hidden rating thinks you're higher rated than you should be, so it matches you against lower teams. Therefore you don't gain much when you win, and lose more when you lose.


There's only 1 solution, and that's not to lose to teams lower than you (at all). Then your hidden will raise and allow you to progress again somewhat.

[Ishido]

You're playing people lower rated than you.

Hidden rating thinks you're higher rated than you should be, so it matches you against lower teams. Therefore you don't gain much when you win, and lose more when you lose.


There's only 1 solution, and that's not to lose to teams lower than you (at all). Then your hidden will raise and allow you to progress again somewhat.

So basically the system is fucked, thanks for clearing that up.

[Shuemue]

how many movement based fights are there? 1 maybe 2? max 3? thats a WHOLE LOTTA EXTRA DPS. 15% movement speed isn't much at all. lets all run faster and use shitty run speed metas and shitty chants

so 15% movement speed for the fight maybe once a wing is better than a solid dps boost for every fight? I need proof please completely obliterate my argument with it I beg of you.

Not trying to pick a fight, but I've always found it interesting that the general sentiment in WoW has been like this regarding movement speed increase, whereas in FFXI stuff with just a 12% increase is OMFGAWESOME

[Dezzimal]

The vast majority of experienced endgamers will tell you that movespeed is a very good enchant to use. Getting in position 8-15% faster does convert directly into DPS. In sunwell every single boss except maybe eredar twins benefited from increased movement speed.

[Noobta]

Well, WoW has mounts so passive movement speed isn't that big of a deal. While leveling I usually put points into it, but for a Lv.80 spec it's pretty pointless.

[Arcana]

Movement speed definitly helps as a tank, certain bosses Anub'Rekhan (25) is certainly one i'd prefer to use atleast some movement speed with. also helps when your doing timed stratholme runs, but then again as a paladin im waaaaaaaay too used to having some form of faster movement, i actually think theres something wrong with the game moving at only 280% on my priest.

[Plow]

So basically the system is fucked, thanks for clearing that up.

Er, no...

It's really simple, as long as you keep losing to people considerably below you, the system will continue to consider you as higher rated than you should be.


It's like... a proper ELO rating system now. You don't get to be a 2300 rated Grand Master in chess by having a 60-40 win ratio against 1500's.

[Ishido]

Er, no...

It's really simple, as long as you keep losing to people considerably below you, the system will continue to consider you as higher rated than you should be.


It's like... a proper ELO rating system now. You don't get to be a 2300 rated Grand Master in chess by having a 60-40 win ratio against 1500's.

At the same time think about it like this: maintaining a 60-75% win ratio doesn't necessarily mean you are moving upward. There is a problem in that.

Compounding the problem are class imbalances, but that's a seperate issue.

[Plow]

At the same time think about it like this: maintaining a 60-75% win ratio doesn't necessarily mean you are moving upward. There is a problem in that.

No, there's not.

You are maintaining a 60% win ratio *AGAINST PEOPLE LOWER RATED THAN YOU.*

Based on that, if you were playing people the same rating as you, you would not be running a 60% win ratio. Therefore you would not be moving up regardless.

I promise you, you're not sitting at 1500, going 6-4 against 1500 people, and going down. The system really does work.

[Naramaska]

Er, no...

It's really simple, as long as you keep losing to people considerably below you, the system will continue to consider you as higher rated than you should be.


It's like... a proper ELO rating system now. You don't get to be a 2300 rated Grand Master in chess by having a 60-40 win ratio against 1500's.

There is a problem though when your 1620 ranked team (as both members' ONLY team) is being matched up against people who are 1800+.

That, and fuck Dalaran Sewers. In the ass. Sideways. Worst damn map I've ever seen.

[Plow]

There is a problem though when your 1620 ranked team (as both members' ONLY team) is being matched up against people who are 1800+.

That, and fuck Dalaran Sewers. In the ass. Sideways. Worst damn map I've ever seen.

Getting matched up against people at 1800+ is the exact same thing, except the opposite. The system thinks you're lower rated than you should be, so it matches you up against higher rated people. That's actually good for you, as you can have a losing record and still be going up, just like he had a winning record and went down, so I'm really not sure why you'd complain when you're on that side of it lol.


Honestly the only people it hurts are those trying to sell points, and people that rely on lucky streaks or beating the same team repeatedly late at night or whatever to get bumps in their ratings.

[Ishido]

Or the people who aren't running the ideal/cookie cutter comp and therefore have a lower winning% versus those teams even if they are rated above them.

Also I'm glad the system "thinks" people are higher or lower than they "should" be (based on what?) but why are we constantly playing teams that are 200+ rating points away from us (it thinks we are lower, yeah you already said that, but for what reason? getting the rating we were at was just a lie, we actually only got half of that?)?

The system should work if things were balanced, I understand that and the mechanics of how it works. But from the way we are being matched up and how class/team balance is terrible right now, it really doesn't seem that way.