Random Question Thread

[Plow]

Arcane is seriously bad with low levels of gear if you're not in a guild that kills shit fast.

[Venga]

if your in raids, the buffs make mana a non issue.

Wow really has becaome to easy, or to short, either way not having to worry about mana in a raid means even the dumb people can do well in raids. Next they make sure you don't have to worry about health....

and i specced forst low lvl simple because you can deal with multiple mobs at once. I was a twink pvping all the time so it was partly for the fun of never dying, but theres just soemthing so fun about stopping your enemies in their tracks.

[Boyiee]

Wow really has becaome to easy, or to short, either way not having to worry about mana in a raid means even the dumb people can do well in raids. Next they make sure you don't have to worry about health....

and i specced forst low lvl simple because you can deal with multiple mobs at once. I was a twink pvping all the time so it was partly for the fun of never dying, but theres just soemthing so fun about stopping your enemies in their tracks.

If you read anything about ulduar, and some other threads here, it's been stated that hard modes are the new form of progression and not the entire instances that only 1% of people get to see. There WILL be fights in ulduar, in which the hard modes for, require you to be extremely mana efficient as stated by blues.

Honestly, that's kinda promising to me. Gear checks are great and all when you are in a 25man guild doing top end raids... but everyone knows after X amount of people get geared out, it gets tedious showing up to said raids. Especially a month after the contents been out and you are still farming that instance for others for months and months more. So when they take a break, or leave, and new people come in, they don't make the gear checks. It is annoying as fuck. I'm in a casual guild of RL friends, we used to all do sunwell everyday and this form of raiding is 100% better for us. If we want to be a "top" guild on the server, then we prove it by doing a hard mode. That doesn't require all of us to be 100% on the ball for a 2-4hour long raid where in every attempt of every boss if one person messes up we have to do it all over. Hello Hyjal.

[EternityEnd]

Arcane is seriously bad with low levels of gear if you're not in a guild that kills shit fast.

That's not true. At worst, towards the end of the fight you will have to alter your rotation to AB x1/2 instead of ABx3 until Evocate/IV or Mana gem comes off CD.

If you know how to manage your mana correctly as Arcane, you will absolutely never go OOM unless you're hit with several KT mana bombs or some shit. This is why Arcane is a viable leveling spec 64-80.

[Aeo]

For the Eng bike do you need 450 to use the bike or can anyone use the bike b/c someone in my guild wants to give me the tinsteel and the gold to get the mats to make him one but idk if he will be able to use

[Jodwahh]

Anyone can use, only eng's can make/buy the mats to make though.

[Plow]

That's not true. At worst, towards the end of the fight you will have to alter your rotation to AB x1/2 instead of ABx3 until Evocate/IV or Mana gem comes off CD.

If you know how to manage your mana correctly as Arcane, you will absolutely never go OOM unless you're hit with several KT mana bombs or some shit. This is why Arcane is a viable leveling spec 64-80.

With FFB you use Molten Armor + glyph, can drop mana gem glyph for any of a number of utility glyphs, dps full on from start to finish and never worry about mana, like... ever.


As arcane in a long fight with crappy gear you need to be using a 2x AB > Abarr/Mbarr from the start, only using 3 stacks during your burst phases, and may still run into mana issues, as well as using mage armor+glyph and mana gem glyph.


Basically, look at it this way: If you're running arcane, and you have to use any rotation other than full time 3x, your damage is going to fall behind a FFB mage that's able to dps full out the entire fight no matter how long the fight is.

And then when you get to trash or stuff like the aoe on sarth +1 (remember we're talking crappy gear with a so-so group here), you're just going to cry.

[EternityEnd]

As Arcane, if you aren't stupid, you can and should use full DPS glyphs, even at low gear levels. As long as you can maintain mana for 2 minutes, you have infinite mana. You can do this at any gear level without mana gem/mage armor glyphs, as long as you know how and when to alter your rotation and use evocate/mana gem.

FFB being able to go all out for shitty DPS forever < Arcane being able to DPS forever for high amounts, even with an altered rotation. FFB simply isn't viable at all anymore if you look at the numbers Arcane can and will put up if you use it to its fullest, even at low gear levels.

As arcane in a long fight with crappy gear you need to be using a 2x AB > Abarr/Mbarr from the start, only using 3 stacks during your burst phases, and may still run into mana issues, as well as using mage armor+glyph and mana gem glyph.

If you have to use a sup-optimal DPS rotation the entire fight with both mana glyphs, chances are you have zero idea how to play an Arcane mage. I didn't have to do that when I had just dinged 80.

Basically, look at it this way: If you're running arcane, and you have to use any rotation other than full time 3x, your damage is going to fall behind a FFB mage that's able to dps full out the entire fight no matter how long the fight is.

From EJ:AB AB AB ([mbarr] or abarr) 5132.355
AB AB ([mbarr] or AB AM) 5031.662

Those two rotations are only 100 DPS apart, and I guarantee you FFB isn't less than 100 DPS behind the optimal Arcane rotation. So FFB would not trump even AB x2.

[Plow]

Those are with optimal gear. (that's 3 rotations you listed btw-- wait, no, that's a different rotation than I was talking about, and still likely to oom you too fast with low gear levels)

And if you're assuming having to evocate every 2 minutes is *helping* your dps, I'm really not sure what to say there. But here's a hint: time spent evocating is time spent not dpsing. You're talking about spending over 5% of your time not dpsing. That's *exactly* the problem with arcane dps at low gear levels.

[EternityEnd]

Except good Arcane mages plan ahead to go nearly OOM when Evocate is up, and Evocate on the last second of IV. To do this, you:

AB3+ [mbarr] 5495.957 (clarification: AB3+ refers to AB spamming. It also means you must cast at least 3 AB)

Spamming AB is huge DPS, and makes up for Evocate time. Evocate giving you more mana to continue DPS until mana dump comes around again. This is how good arcane mages negate lost DPS time. Correct, it isn't helping your DPS to spend 6 seconds evocating. That's obvious.

Using evocate in conjunction with the aforementioned tactic maintains your DPS, and in fact pushes it much higher on short fights. Which is, you know, why short fights "matter" for Arcane.

[Falaras]

If you go OOM as arcane your doing it wrong, even using ABx2 for a bit will wield better results then FFB.
And I'd say Arcane is the least gear dependent spec actually, I know mages in greens and sunwell T6 as arcane that do more then the turning tide FFB mages on my server.

[Plow]

Except good Arcane mages plan ahead to go nearly OOM when Evocate is up, and Evocate on the last second of IV. To do this, you:

AB3+ [mbarr] 5495.957 (clarification: AB3+ refers to AB spamming. It also means you must cast at least 3 AB)

Spamming AB is huge DPS, and makes up for Evocate time. Evocate giving you more mana to continue DPS until mana dump comes around again. This is how good arcane mages negate lost DPS time. Correct, it isn't helping your DPS to spend 6 seconds evocating. That's obvious.

Using evocate in conjunction with the aforementioned tactic maintains your DPS, and in fact pushes it much higher on short fights. Which is, you know, why short fights "matter" for Arcane.

Try the stuff before you try to act like you're superior in giving advice please, done properly in a 5 minute fight draining mana and evoing at every cooldown 1 of the 3 will have icy veins.

You can fight it all you like, go out in crap gear on a mage and compare the 2, I just did it recently. The fact of the matter is that dealing with mana = lost dps, being unable to sustain the full potential of Arcane you *will* fall behind as the fights get longer.

Anyway this is pretty pointless, you're trying to argue based on optimal gear and claiming intentionally lowering your dps for mana conservation and regeneration is not detrimental to your dps.

Arcane is great if you're on a scrub alt with groups that will kill shit fast before it starts to matter, when you're running your first 80 with slow groups that give you 5+ minute patch etc, FFB will easily keep up while being vastly superior for trash and aoe fights.

[Falaras]

Considering I was somewhat in the situation of being Arcane during 5+ minute Patchwerks and not having any mana isues with correctly timed Evos, Gems, and Pots I say bullshit.

[Guitarman]

So i need a little help. Here's whats happening.

I brought over a lock friend of mine to join my current guild; and he's floundering. He's got a mix of 10 man naxx gear and random blues. ( a few pvp items, but not many). Thing is, he's pulling 960 dps in naxx. He's an affliction lock.

Can anyone recommend a basic, cookie cutter dps rotation that would put him at at least 2k dps? I know nothing at all about locks myself. I have a feeling he's not casting as much as he should.

[Boyiee]

So i need a little help. Here's whats happening.

I brought over a lock friend of mine to join my current guild; and he's floundering. He's got a mix of 10 man naxx gear and random blues. ( a few pvp items, but not many). Thing is, he's pulling 960 dps in naxx. He's an affliction lock.

Can anyone recommend a basic, cookie cutter dps rotation that would put him at at least 2k dps? I know nothing at all about locks myself. I have a feeling he's not casting as much as he should.

My druid does 700dps in instances at 72, check allah or EJ for lock-specific stuff. You might get some answers there.

[Plow]

Considering I was somewhat in the situation of being Arcane during 5+ minute Patchwerks and not having any mana isues with correctly timed Evos, Gems, and Pots I say bullshit.

And did you go with similar groups and gear as FFB to test the comparison?

The point I'm making is that adjusting your rotations and using evocate has a negative impact on your dps.

You cannot sit there and say "Well with optimal gear the difference is X amount, therefore at all gear levels it will be the same." It doesn't work like that. Arcane is not (nearly) far enough ahead to forgo the max damage rotations, be out of cycle 5% of the time, and use gear/buffs intended for mana regen rather than damage and stay ahead of FFB.

Do you guys even understand the rotations you're discussing? One guy sat there and said he can be fine on mana using a rotation where you spam arcane blast past 3 stacks and only stop blasting (at 700% mana cost) when mbarr procs above 3 stacks. That's the rotation you use when you have every mana buff possible and are doing sub 150 second fights, even in the optimal gear that's not a maintainable rotation.

[erish]

From my understanding and what ive seen in practice in terms of dps and gear it goes somewhat like this.

Freah 80 in quest gear > frost best dps
Heroic geared mage > FFB
Naxx 10/25 > arcane
Best in slot everything im so good check me out > Fire/TTW

Although BiS mage may do slightly better dps as arcane but really depends on group setup although Fire atm is the best dps but the gear requirements for it are fucking stupid at best.

[Boyiee]

That changes in 3.1 doesn't it? Fire getting more op and good gear being available to do so

[Plow]

A lot of people are leaning towards FFB for Ulduar expecting pretty long fights early on. Frost is looking interesting, definitely strengthens the "you can't oom if you try" function, but the dps is enough of a loss it'll probably only get used on stuff that mana burns.

[Falaras]

I never said youd be able to spam AB till MB procced, thats impossible for any gear level. 3x AB > ArB or Mbar or even Missles (higher DPM lower DPS) can be kept up for the majority of the fight though.
And FFB getting better in Ulduar? They are nerfing Rune of Razorice and Molten Armor so no, arcane will be the one and only spec unless frost becomes good somehow. Sad because I'm only 1 piece away from BIS Fireball gear too.