ZNM Developer Interview (Vana'diel Tsuushin)

[Mojo]

It's definitely not in the same league as AV. Are you even taking into consideration that not a single linkshell has encountered Pandemonium Warden more than once since the patch? If you honestly expect a group of people to kill it on their first attempt, I don't know what can be said to convince you otherwise. Most servers haven't even had Pandemonium Warden popped.

Case and point, the final form. How much factual information is known about it? I've only read about two post patch attempts, one of which was very poorly documented, that progressed far enough to see it. It's the only obstacle that remains, and claiming that it's unkillable based on two accounts is quite silly.

[jimbobsonofgod]

You don't hear much about people trying AV after the SE nerf, people just go on with their day and consider him unkillable. I guess I'm one of those people who think that it can't be done til someone does it.

[Imitarate]

SE has proved time and time again that it's NOT WORTH struggling to come up with a strategy to beat them. If you do, congratulations, I hope you enjoy the drops, because you'll never get them with THAT method again. So why would people bother?

[Ahlah]

I do not mean to derail, has any linkshell actually attempted AV fight using the method demonstrated in SE developer's video post patch? Until ppl actually figure out the 2hr trick it's probably unfair to say AV is unbeatable.

Only thing I can say about the video is the tank party setup makes a lot of sense to me. I think they are geared to prevent getting one-shotted by AV which explains the earth staff and Koenig Cuirass. It's actually quite hard for AV to kill the tanks because when one of them is in trouble, the other 3 will spam cure. Multiple tanks also help to spread out aga damage and make soul voice vilerai more manageable.

Perhaps try to maximise survivability of the tank party, which will at least buy your LS enough time to test different strategy.

[Lordwafik]

Meteor

[Judai]

Nobody cares about PW because the ZNM system is boring as fuck and way too repetitive and on top of all that, you have to spam it forever to get one pop set. My LS got 2/3 items and ended up stopping ZNMs because it got to be too much of a pain in the ass and boring.

The onyl reason my LS will probably even start it up again is to get a few of us the PW pop items for our Mythics, because we still don't give a fuck about PW since it's a shitty mob and now need it's pops for Mythics.

I would have laughed at those developers in their face if I did the interview and told them how fucking stupid they are. That's one problem with all these interviews, nobody flat out tells these people how stupid they are, they just chuckle at their jokes, kiss a little butt and hope to get another interview later.

[Mojo]

Pulling a stunt like that would likely end your career in journalism. If somebody is going to dignify you with an interview, they should be treated with respect regardless if you agree with them or not.

There were numerous attempts at Absolute Virtue following the patch. It still proved to be just as destructive and unruly as ever. SE never provided any magic method, just some hints that were never fully and properly explored. The only thing that was learned is that there is some kind of gimmicky trick involving 2 hours that is required to kill it, and that the developers are quite content sitting on top of that information.

Pandemonium Warden, on the other hand, has only been attempted a few times due to the awful requirements to obtain a pop set and the tedious nature of ZNM in general. Steady progress has been made throughout these attempts. The only remaining obstacle, the final form, appears to be something that can possibly be killed by a few planned wipes if not by something else.

I definitely agree that both mobs are poorly planned with deluded playerbase expectations at one point or another, but aside from that it's apples and oranges.

[MillionDollarMan]

Pulling a stunt like that would likely end your career in journalism. If somebody is going to dignify you with an interview, they should be treated with respect regardless if you agree with them or not.

There were numerous attempts at Absolute Virtue following the patch. It still proved to be just as destructive and unruly as ever. SE never provided any magic method, just some hints that were never fully and properly explored. The only thing that was learned is that there is some kind of gimmicky trick involving 2 hours that is required to kill it, and that the developers are quite content sitting on top of that information.

Pandemonium Warden, on the other hand, has only been attempted a few times due to the awful requirements to obtain a pop set and the tedious nature of ZNM in general. Steady progress has been made throughout these attempts. The only remaining obstacle, the final form, appears to be something that can possibly be killed by a few planned wipes if not by something else.

I definitely agree that both mobs are poorly planned with deluded playerbase expectations at one point or another, but aside from that it's apples and oranges.

Not really.. Pulling a stunt like that can make you,

[ronin sparthos]

Nobody cares about PW because the ZNM system is boring as fuck and way too repetitive and on top of all that, you have to spam it forever to get one pop set. My LS got 2/3 items and ended up stopping ZNMs because it got to be too much of a pain in the ass and boring.

The onyl reason my LS will probably even start it up again is to get a few of us the PW pop items for our Mythics, because we still don't give a fuck about PW since it's a shitty mob and now need it's pops for Mythics.

I would have laughed at those developers in their face if I did the interview and told them how fucking stupid they are. That's one problem with all these interviews, nobody flat out tells these people how stupid they are, they just chuckle at their jokes, kiss a little butt and hope to get another interview later.

What system in FFXI isnt repetitive?

Sky? Spam for Haidates or Kirin drops.
Sea? Spam for Torques that dont exist.
Limbus? Spam for AF+1 items that can stall you years.
Salvage? Spam for 35s that never drop, Silver Sea sucks ass.
Kings/World Pops? Spam in a clusterfuck of people for Claims
Einherjar? Spam for non-existant chamber abjs.
Dynamis? Spam for gear that can choose to appear in streaks or never at all.

The list goes on, really.

Mainly the only thing killing ZNM imo is the fact that you are forced into taking pictures which burdens alot of space the average person may not have. An option to hand in monster drops instead of the laughable "take pictures of an HNM/instanced monster" would be far superior and welcomed.

ZNM is one of the few systems where players got what they wanted, PW aside.

With a few tweaks, the WOTG incarnation of ZNM (if it ever comes to be) would be as close as possible to the ideal "pop and kill your NM" system as you could get in the game.

[Mojo]

I think most people are actually keen on the idea of accruing points in some fashion and then expending them on pop sets. The problem lies in that picture taking is highly mundane and that the sheer amount of zeni required to obtain a Pandemonium Warden set (650,000+) is absurd. If earning points was enjoyable in any way, this system would be much more popular.

[Arximiro]

I think most people are actually keen on the idea of accruing points in some fashion and then expending them on pop sets. The problem lies in that picture taking is highly mundane and that the sheer amount of zeni required to obtain a Pandemonium Warden set (650,000+) is absurd. If earning points was enjoyable in any way, this system would be much more popular.

I wasn't aware until reading this thread that the tier V pop items were that rare. That really is pretty fucked up.

[jimbobsonofgod]

For 1 person alone popping him sure PW sure but as a group i really don't see as being that bad, look at AV pops way back when you don't get 100% drop on any jailer. JoL took months to get to, and AV was even worse.

But if you had 9 people collecting zeni for all T4 pops I'd say you'd at least walk away with 1 if you are lucky 2 PW pops in 2 months or so if you popped 9 T4 every 2 weeks which isn't unheard of, just give to 1 guy to complete the set.

Which in the long run is still way better then what Sea used to be like.

[BRP]

Let me turn my nigh million of Jettons into Zeni directly...

[jimbobsonofgod]

Let me have a soul plate bag that takes up 1 inventory space but when you click on it , it expands to 20 inventory spaces just for pictures.

If WoW can do it so can we!



InbeforePs2 Limitations.

[Ahlah]

There were numerous attempts at Absolute Virtue following the patch. It still proved to be just as destructive and unruly as ever. SE never provided any magic method, just some hints that were never fully and properly explored. The only thing that was learned is that there is some kind of gimmicky trick involving 2 hours that is required to kill it, and that the developers are quite content sitting on top of that information.

I am not questioning the ability of most major linkshells who attempt AV fight and I have no doubt that Meteor can easily wipe a full alliance. What I am trying to say is that maxiaml survivability is the only way to find out AV secret. I can imagine a lot of LS don't even last long enough to see Meteor.

SE also mentioned all the information required to kill AV can be found in the video. What's there to lose other than few hundred exp points if your LS wipe to AV? I think a lot of LS don't even bother to try because ppl keep saying it's impossible to kill AV.

[Destinye]

Same thing happens in real life all the time, and people in this game are too damn pussy to admit they fear doing shit because "he said she said and BG they say it's impossible so it must be true blah blah."

@Jimbo

Guessing you were sarcastic..or I didn't know that WoW was released on an 8 year old console.

[Whaleporn]

What system in FFXI isnt repetitive?

Sky? Spam for Haidates or Kirin drops.
Sea? Spam for Torques that dont exist.

I mostly agree with you, except these two. Sky was and still may be one of the most gear productive areas in the game. The NMs have variety without being gimmicky. It was boring before there was other options for endgame, now it's rather relaxing.

Most of the trouble with Sea is where the drops are located: for some reason AV drops a huge selection of gear frequently if you can kill him, instead of putting one or two ultimate items on the impossible boss mob and spreading some of the other gear onto other mobs. Even sky would be sort of stupid if only Kirin dropped the 'good' drops from the 4 gods. If players could take down A.V, sea would still be a chore due to all the dummy mobs they scatter in front of him.

ZNM is actually pretty great because they made sure that every fight gets you something, even if it's just a naked shield. LoL riot.

[BRP]

I think Sky is very overrated. It's poorly designed and full of mechanics that make people hate FFXI and parts of FFXI's endgame. I've never seen any other system get completely fucked up by RMT because SE has since learned to get rid of public choke points in such systems.

EDIT: ZNM would be a good example, but unfortunately it suffers from a different kind of criticism.

[orson]

I am not questioning the ability of most major linkshells who attempt AV fight and I have no doubt that Meteor can easily wipe a full alliance. What I am trying to say is that maxiaml survivability is the only way to find out AV secret. I can imagine a lot of LS don't even last long enough to see Meteor.

SE also mentioned all the information required to kill AV can be found in the video. What's there to lose other than few hundred exp points if your LS wipe to AV? I think a lot of LS don't even bother to try because ppl keep saying it's impossible to kill AV.

Go fight it yourself and follow the video and then come back to tell us how well that worked for you. Until then please don't derail with major speculation.

[The Blackrose]

I do not mean to derail, has any linkshell actually attempted AV fight using the method demonstrated in SE developer's video post patch? Until ppl actually figure out the 2hr trick it's probably unfair to say AV is unbeatable.

And you wonder why people think you're a retarded, oblivious mouthbreather.

"HAY GUYZ, DID YOU TRY..."

No, we didn't try this in the million previous threads concerning AV after many jokes involving melee RDM with staves, camera zoom and other ridiculous crap. NEWS FLASH: This is the reason AV threads are always locked. Stupid retarded shit like this.

Ahem...

I have to agree that zeni generation is probably the biggest downside to ZNM. Otherwise it's a well thought out system. My inventory/mog space is already crying over having to store gear for 4 (soon to be 5) separate jobs. Now I have to carry a camera, a set of plates and then a single plate for each camera shot? I usually sit at 62-65/70 on bag space (assuming I'm not carrying pop sets or bank material to forward) as BLM or SCH, with barely any room in the housing. If I'm going to want to go out and get a ton of pictures from mob of the day, I need hammerspace.