ZNM Developer Interview (Vana'diel Tsuushin)

[Max™]

Fucking win on the Inigo reference, <3 you TBR.

[Mojo]

In his defense, he is absolutely correct about the nearly complete lack of methodical approach concerning AV. I'll do my best to summarize what actually happened. I know this is long, but please bear with me.

Jailer of Love and Absolute Virtue are released. Jailer of Love is difficult, although not impossible, but most linkshells are struggling due to a general lack of knowledge on how to approach the fight. There are claims of Jailer of Love having unbreakable regen, I honestly do not believe them. It could have been killed if the right strategy was used, but we're talking about a time when NIN/WAR was the preferred tank, after all.

Either way, a ninja patch was made at some point that resulted in Jailer of Love's regen being lowered by killing its pets. Linkshells were now killing Jailer of Love and starting to encounter AV. Many legendary attempts that lasted periods of more than a day were made. Some of these attempts were successful, but all of them involved exploiting a bug of some kind. I can't remember which bug came first, the wall of justice or holding for several hours killing wynavs until its AI broke and it could no longer use two hour abilities(or in some cases, spells as well).

These bugs eventually fixed. People try a few more attempts, but give up thinking that the two hour lock bug was the intended way to kill it and that SE had made it invincible. Square Enix releases some hints afer this time with instructions on how to reduce its regen, although it is generally ignored by the majority of players because it does not directly provide the solution. Thus begins a long era of AV being untouched and nearly forgotten. There were a few maniacs, myself included, who tried to make some progress, but to no avail.

Eventually, due to constant increasing pressure from FFXI players, some videos are released that offer hints. The regen hint is restated as well as a very blatant hint that following AV's two hours with player two hours has something to do with it. It is not clear exactly what the significance is, but never-the-less, people are very excited. It was so popular that it set BG record of current members online which has never been broken to this day. People across all servers were trying to pop and fight AV to figure out what the secret is.

However, not a single group of people, not even one group, had any method to their approach. They showed up, popped AV, and then tried using two hours randomly after it used two hours. AV didn't die instantly, and then proceeded to wipe them within a time frame of a few minutes. Nobody was looking for anything specific, they just hoped that it would instantly become easy. There were no efforts towards forming an idea on how two hours might affect it, popping it to conduct a controlled test, and then examining the results. It was just people showing up hoping that it would miraculously become easy and that following one of its two hours with your own would be some legendary panacea.

Needless to say, it wasn't that easy. People were aggravated, although honestly, I do not believe there was enough conscious effort from the playerbase to justify most of these frustrations. Square Enix gave a pretty decent hint that was, again, largely ignored.

There was an exception to this. ME! That's right, me. *Pats self on back* I tirelessly tried to examine theories people had from a logical point of view. If the threads are still around, feel free to browse them, although I think they may have been lost in a forum attack. Either way, the most significant find I made was that AV used two hours on timed intervals and that nothing could delay these intervals. It doesn't add that much to the knowledgebase, but it's what people should have been doing.

Anyways, people begin to move away from AV and focus on other things. There is a pretty sour taste in everyone's mouth over the entire ordeal. There is another period where not much attention is given to AV besides from the crazies.

Then along come ZNM and Pandemonium Warden. This is definitely the most amusing part of the story, in my book. After countless hours of farming zeni and killing ZNM, a few linkshells are able to obtain some Pandemonium Warden pop sets. It's popped a few times but is allowed to depop because of a general lack of resources needed to actually kill it. Eventually Rukenshin's linkshell, BeyondTheLimitation, obtains a pop set and starts a serious effort towards actually killing it. 18 hours of intense fighting eventually lead to a wipe and defeat. The adrenaline that had been keeping some people going begins to wear off, resulting in people actually throwing up.

The story of BtL's epic attempt starts to show up on blogs... then on gaming media websites... and then finally on the front page of Yahoo right next to Michael Phelps. The entire situation is now a total cluster fuck. Square Enix is receiving awkward looks from people everywhere and finally receives the message that there might be something wrong with their playerbase expectations. They shortly after announce an upcoming patch to address the issue of Pandemonium Warden and Absolute Virtue. This is news is well received by most players, who are hoping for some kind of closure to the situation.

The day of the patch comes, and once again, people are popping AV and trying to kill it. People are, again, looking at two hours as some kind of cure all. However, after a few days go by, people figure out that it can now quickly be killed with a legion of Kraken Club wielding Dark Knights. People abandon their efforts at figuring out the mob and hop on the bandwagon of Dark Knight zerging. Honestly though, who can blame them. Given the history and current situation, nobody really gave flying fuck on how it died(nor should they have), they just wanted to kill it and get the loot.

A few days of this go by, and Square Enix announces that a patch will be done in the near future. They don't state what the patch will be, but anybody who wasn't completely deluded knew what it was going to be. They were going to change AV so that it couldn't be killed in that manner, which is understandable from a developer's point of view. A frenzy of AV kills happen between the time of the announcement and the time of the patch. I personally killed 12 Absolute Virtues in the period of a single day, which was kind fun to do I guess. The patch is done, and a Souleater resistance is added to AV. Most people though have had enough of the silliness and wander off, content with their newly acquired items.

And now we're here. Nobody can kill AV. The dev's think that whatever method that is required to kill it is reasonable. It probably is, but what they don't understand is that what is required to figure it out, although not impossible, is completely unreasonable. The players think that they've put in enough conscious effort to consider the case thoroughly investigated. They haven't. The situation is again, another clusterfuck. What can we learn from all of this? I don't really know. I'm going to bed, good night.

[isladar]

End of AV discussion in this thread.

[Riki]

What can we learn from all of this?

Itou and Sase live in their own little world.

Even though communication between SE and the players has become better, most of the stuff doesen't get through to the battle planners.
Not saying that all the wishes and ideas that come from players are good or should be implemented. But regarding those two mobs (AV and PW) it becomes quite clear, that their riddle does not work the way it was intended.
I still don't understand why they gave a useful hint for Odin but refuse to give one for AV.

[Destinye]

They gave the hint to the JP players because they don't harp on shit like NA/EU players do every year at Fanfest, so the way SE seems to work, is they're more willing to "give in" if you don't pester the living fuck out of them about one thing. So you never know..if people can not bring up AV at fanfest this year (ROFL) they'll probably drop a hint or two in an interview sometime after fanfest.

So hey, there's one theory no one has ever tried lol

But seriously, they mentioned lowering prices (?)/requirement on recommended fauna on ZNM since they seemed to get a lot of messages about it, and if they do indeed drop prices..maybe that'll generate more interest in photo taking, since I know after awhile people will get tired of having to collect zeni or eventually get all gear and ZNM suffers the same fate as every other new system implemented.

[Ramses]

They gave the hint to the JP players because they don't harp on shit like NA/EU players do every year at Fanfest, so the way SE seems to work, is they're more willing to "give in" if you don't pester the living fuck out of them about one thing. So you never know..if people can not bring up AV at fanfest this year (ROFL) they'll probably drop a hint or two in an interview sometime after fanfest.

So hey, there's one theory no one has ever tried lol

But seriously, they mentioned lowering prices (?)/requirement on recommended fauna on ZNM since they seemed to get a lot of messages about it, and if they do indeed drop prices..maybe that'll generate more interest in photo taking, since I know after awhile people will get tired of having to collect zeni or eventually get all gear and ZNM suffers the same fate as every other new system implemented.

Not one question was asked about AV in either of the two Q&A sessions last year. It is ridiculous to think the devs don't answer questions out of spite to the people who are the reason they have a job. There are some things they just don't want to divulge at certain times. Asking questions is the only way to find out what they will and won't divulge at this time. As for asking about AV, it has been awhile since it was brought up and the last thing they said was no more info would be released at the time, leaving open that more info would possibly come in the future. The only sure way to get them to not answer a question is to not ask it.

[The Blackrose]

But seriously, they mentioned lowering prices (?)/requirement on recommended fauna on ZNM since they seemed to get a lot of messages about it, and if they do indeed drop prices..maybe that'll generate more interest in photo taking, since I know after awhile people will get tired of having to collect zeni or eventually get all gear and ZNM suffers the same fate as every other new system implemented.

There's also the other end where ZNMs are an extension of content that has gone the way of chocobo races, Garrison, etc. As I said earlier, I find the way to generate zeni is cumbersome and monotonous.

First you have to worry about another set of currency besides zeni (either you're trading imperial currency, which is yet ANOTHER currency to add into the factor, or you're actively participating in Pankration to receive jettons). On top of that, generation of zeni is based on the principle that not all pictures are created equal, which then requires a greater expenditure of jettons to fund more soul plates (which then may dip into other currencies again, if you're not active in Pankration). Maximization also requires that you know the current target for the largest amount of points available. This also comes with the hope that said target will not change between your departure and your return with X number of soul plates.

It can be understandable that by tying the system to a somewhat small group of content can potentially open up the content to a wider range. But at the same time if the original system was tedious and left players disinterested, or if the new system adds more to the tediousness, then what good is that tie for? Also, if I have to dip into my IS in order to convert to jetton in order to then pick up soul plates, only to then have to turn them into zeni, why can't I at least skip the jetton phase? No, you still need to do something to get to the zeni stage, not IS to zeni directly.

Just some thoughts from the other end of the spectrum.

[Not Kuno]

Jailer of Love and Absolute Virtue are released. Jailer of Love is difficult, although not impossible, but most linkshells are struggling due to a general lack of knowledge on how to approach the fight. There are claims of Jailer of Love having unbreakable regen, I honestly do not believe them. It could have been killed if the right strategy was used, but we're talking about a time when NIN/WAR was the preferred tank, after all.

It had unbeatable regen. We killed every pop set until it only spawned sharks and it still was not damagable, and even then kept fighting for a few hours after. I remember only sharks because we thought we bugged it and were pissed because sharks were the worst. But yeah, not beatable.

[Valkrish]

There's also the other end where ZNMs are an extension of content that has gone the way of chocobo races, Garrison, etc. As I said earlier, I find the way to generate zeni is cumbersome and monotonous.

"Unpopular Content has low interest, all these repetitive tasks only have low rewards."

First you have to worry about another set of currency besides zeni (either you're trading imperial currency, which is yet ANOTHER currency to add into the factor, or you're actively participating in Pankration to receive jettons). On top of that, generation of zeni is based on the principle that not all pictures are created equal, which then requires a greater expenditure of jettons to fund more soul plates (which then may dip into other currencies again, if you're not active in Pankration). Maximization also requires that you know the current target for the largest amount of points available. This also comes with the hope that said target will not change between your departure and your return with X number of soul plates.

"If you hate pankration, you lose lots of imperial standing for jetton to buy pics to get zeni from IS gold coins. Pictures suck, points are too low for the effort required for some and not worth it for others. If they increase zeni, that means more stress on me because now i have to remember even more monsters that hit max zeni/pic, but only if Sanraku doesn't change his mind like the Brokeback he is."

It can be understandable that by tying the system to a somewhat small group of content can potentially open up the content to a wider range. But at the same time if the original system was tedious and left players disinterested, or if the new system adds more to the tediousness, then what good is that tie for? Also, if I have to dip into my IS in order to convert to jetton in order to then pick up soul plates, only to then have to turn them into zeni, why can't I at least skip the jetton phase? No, you still need to do something to get to the zeni stage, not IS to zeni directly.

Just some thoughts from the other end of the spectrum.

"The original system sucks, small group work sucks, i don't like it. The new system sounds like it will also suck even more, what's the point? The idea of IS > Jetton > Zeni sucks, why can't i skip this phase? I don't think its fair for other players to get IS > Zeni directly.


Hooray!

[Yugl]

I thought the Zeni costs went to max after an update. I don't see how the prices listed are "average".

[The Blackrose]

"If you hate pankration or are busy doing other things and only leave your pet for one round, you lose lots of imperial standing for jetton to buy pics to get zeni from IS gold coins. Pictures suck, points are too low for the effort required for some and not worth it for others zeni output is judged by numerous factors. If they increase zeni, that means more stress on me because now i have to remember even more which monsters that hit max zeni/pic, but only if Sanraku doesn't change his mind like the Brokeback he is."

"The original system sucks is a royal pain in the ass, small group work sucks (learn2solo -ed.), i don't like it it needs a bit more tweaking. The new system sounds like it will also suck even more Adding more tedious crap to the old system, what's the point?

Can I get the next one in a dramatic reading, by the way?

I thought the Zeni costs went to max after an update. I don't see how the prices listed are "average".

That was my understanding as well.

[Ramses]

It is the average of what they expected them to usually be. They said how they might need to adjust it because it is way lower than they expected. So if you think it sucks now...

[Destinye]

It is the average of what they expected them to usually be. They said how they might need to adjust it because it is way lower than they expected. So if you think it sucks now...

They did? The only thing I've seen them say in regards to zeni is how players hate getting low returns on pictures and that they may adjust that if they see fit.

[Lordwafik]

BTW Lordwafik why are you such a d*ck? Skadi's Bazubands will drop one day, don't get sour because you are jealous.

Jealous of what , the fact everyone who reads your post thinks you have downs syndrome ?

PS :

http://wafiks.com/blog/wp-content/up...1/ohgodyes.jpg

[Callisto]

I am, people feel bad for the retardos and give them free stuff and make them do less work

[Colenzo]

http://content.ytmnd.com/content/0/3...f7cd41fd29.gif





http://content.ytmnd.com/content/5/f...ba06862627.gif

itsapizzone.ytmnd.com

[Ramses]

For those who haven't checked back, JP Button has added another interview, some extra Q&A questions that got answered after the show and a link to video footage. This links to the interview, then follow the links at the bottom right for the other stuff.

http://www.jpbutton.com/?p=1189

[Ahlah]

Jealous of what , the fact everyone who reads your post thinks you have downs syndrome ?

PS :

http://wafiks.com/blog/wp-content/up...1/ohgodyes.jpg

Congratulations on the hands, doesn't change my impression of you a bit. At least I am not the one who bitched about other salvage group getting 3 Morrigan bodies in a row, or have to rely on drop dup exploit and even try to conceal it on a public forum.

BTW stop using a disease name, you are insulting a lot of unfortunate ppl who are borned with genetic disorder. Too bad you don't even have enough IQ to match them, just accept the whole AV testing concept is too difficult for you to understand and move on.

[Lordwafik]

Congratulations on the hands, doesn't change my impression of you a bit. At least I am not the one who bitched about other salvage group getting 3 Morrigan bodies in a row, or have to rely on drop dup exploit and even try to conceal it on a public forum.

BTW stop using a disease name, you are insulting a lot of unfortunate ppl who are borned with genetic disorder. Too bad you don't even have enough IQ to match them, just accept the whole AV testing concept is too difficult for you to understand and move on.

Syndrome =/= disease first of all, wtf do I have anything to do with AV? I didn't even briefly talk about it, I don't care about it (aside from the fact it hasn't died 3 years after implementation legitimately) - all you're doing is slinging shit, but you have a problem taking it. You're the one bitching and trying to find faults in me (skadi hands!) and when I show them to you (skadi hands!) you're essentially going "Oh yeah well your mother".
Nice attempt at trying to make me look like a cunt by trying to sympathise for people with downs syndrome, I'd hate to inform you though that it may not have worked, most people here already think I'm a cunt so your work is fruitless.
"Rely on salvage exploit" ? How do I rely on it? I still do salvage just fine, to imply I rely on it would also imply that I can't do salvage without it, to which once again, your argument flounders - as I'm still salvaging all the time.
Please link me to where I was bitching about the people who got 3 morri bodies in a row.

Second of all, I don't care one bit what you of all people think of me. You're a terrible person with a leaky vagina - I'm not the only one who's noticed it, I'm in Australia and I can smell it from here.

[chazzyphizzle]

It's just that the only insult he uses is the I.Q. thing, and it's pretty silly. On topic, the interview really does make it seem like those devs don't want us to kill PW. Maybe our collective I.Q. just isn't high enough?