Paladin Shield Skill Armor: Vital Equipment or Myth?

[Valisk]

So nothing? ;-p

[SubzeroDiabolos]

That's the most retarded statement I've seen in a while. Because I don't have NIN75 there are stuff I don't know about? Ah....... That's not what my NIN37 says. I don't have NIN main. I hate NIN. Alot. I still know when and how to cast my utsusemi macros, so I thank you for your amusing post and please come again with bs stuff like that.

[Cloudius]

So nothing? ;-p

Usually when I was lvling Nin I used to spam Ni, and only use Ichi in between to wait on recast (Makes sense, faster cast, longer recast, an extra shadow should be my main cast). Later on in the 70s while doing Greater Colibri, If I did my normal Ni->Ichi->Ni routine I'd end up half the time shadowless with only my dick in my hand(Pecking Flurry spam, etc), So found that it was easier to onlu keep Ichi up and only cast Ni when Ichi was on timer.

Like Neo said, when you lvl a job that's only survivability is to keep shadows up, you get to learn a few tricks and timings. Pld has it a lil easier with Flash, Shield bash, and shield blocks/mastery.

[kayn]

By leveling a job that HAS to keep its shadows up to survive you better itegrate the values of timing your recasts, knowing what moves you should start casting before hand, and over all get another 60ish levels of training.

Alot of pld/nins that dont have nin main are lazier with their shadows, as they have always had their damage reduction/shield blocks to fall back on for pld.

Then again, leveling any job can help you play your current one better. (i.e. tanks leveling other tank jobs, mage jobs, etc to see where everyone else falls in the support chain).

Glad to see someone understands how things work. To those who say leveling nin is useless. First, there are a few who don't need to level the job to get a better understanding how it works but I do mean few. I think it's kind of arrogant to say you don't need to level nin to get better at /nin though. I really can't throw stones though. I thought plds who are much better than me were silly for leveling nin. After I leveled the job I understood why they did it.

[Enedin]

By having THF75/NIN37 long before I even unlocked PLD, I'm fairly sure I know what to watch out for when using shadows. It's the same deal on PLD, except that you pray for a shield block and not an evasion.

I fkin hated levelling NIN. Hated it.

[Mayareira]

You aren't going to hit the shield block cap on anything that matters, especially without shield merits/equipment etc.

Shield Skill+ equipment is essential and does not require huge investments.

[Tubbers]

I don't really agree that leveling NIN improves your PLD performance. What's going to improve your PLD performance is tanking hard mobs, not leveling NIN.

Sure you may think that leveling NIN, a job without shield/flash/as much survivability will teach you to use shadows better, but the fact is that PLD has those abilities, and using them effectively in addition to good shadow casting skills is what is going to make you a good PLD, and honestly the 3/4 shadow difference on Ni between NIN main and sub is going to undo a lot of the learning going on from leveling NIN in the first place.

[SubzeroDiabolos]

the fact is that PLD has those abilities, and using them effectively in addition to good shadow casting skills is what is going to make you a good PLD

Amen

[Talint]

Good players already understand how jobs work without needing to level them. I don't need to level ninja to 75 to understand how it works. You may figure out or learn something that you didn't know before by doing so, but any good player will know how which job does what. First hand experience isn't necessary to be good.

[tobyjuggler]

Usually when I was lvling Nin I used to spam Ni, and only use Ichi in between to wait on recast (Makes sense, faster cast, longer recast, an extra shadow should be my main cast). Later on in the 70s while doing Greater Colibri, If I did my normal Ni->Ichi->Ni routine I'd end up half the time shadowless with only my dick in my hand(Pecking Flurry spam, etc), So found that it was easier to onlu keep Ichi up and only cast Ni when Ichi was on timer.

Like Neo said, when you lvl a job that's only survivability is to keep shadows up, you get to learn a few tricks and timings. Pld has it a lil easier with Flash, Shield bash, and shield blocks/mastery.

PLD75 & NIN37 here and I already knew this pretty early on into my PLD/NIN career without leveling NIN to 75, as do all decent PLD/NIN's, whether or not they levelled NIN to 75. Anything else we don't know? (not aimed at you specifically).

[Neosutra]

Jesus fucking christ some of you people are stubborn and dense.

No one here said you have to level ninja to be a good pld, however leveling ninja can ONLY help you be better with pld/nin tanking. Leveling ANY job can only help you appreciate more the mechanics it takes to get things done. And yes, doing a job where there is alot more stress on keeping shadows up WILL teach you some good methods.

"I hate nin" isnt a reason to assume you are the best shadow tanker in the world when you havent leveled the main shadow tanking job. You still have room to grow, no matter how good you are.

[Furionstormrage]

Jesus fucking christ some of you people are stubborn and dense.

No one here said you have to level ninja to be a good pld, however leveling ninja can ONLY help you be better with pld/nin tanking. Leveling ANY job can only help you appreciate more the mechanics it takes to get things done. And yes, doing a job where there is alot more stress on keeping shadows up WILL teach you some good methods.

"I hate nin" isnt a reason to assume you are the best shadow tanker in the world when you havent leveled the main shadow tanking job. You still have room to grow, no matter how good you are.

This, dear god this.

The best of anything are the ones that will admit that they have more to learn, and that they aren't perfect. They're the best because they try the hardest.

Personally, for me, leveling NIN to 75 and tanking a little endgame content with it did really help my Ichi timing, which in return helped me to use the Shield system as an added bonus and not as a crutch.

[Rocl]

No one here said you have to level ninja to be a good pld, however leveling ninja can ONLY help you be better with pld/nin tanking. Leveling ANY job can only help you appreciate more the mechanics it takes to get things done. And yes, doing a job where there is alot more stress on keeping shadows up WILL teach you some good methods.

"I hate nin" isnt a reason to assume you are the best shadow tanker in the world when you havent leveled the main shadow tanking job. You still have room to grow, no matter how good you are.

I mean seriously how can you argue this? Leveling almost any job can only help your skill with others. Assuming you're not retarded.

Except for Bard. Bard doesn't teach you shit.

[Cloudius]

Except for Bard. Bard doesn't teach you shit.

I does so! It taught me how fucking annoying lvling Brd is.

[grimrising]

PLD75 & NIN37 here and I already knew this pretty early on into my PLD/NIN career without leveling NIN to 75, as do all decent PLD/NIN's, whether or not they levelled NIN to 75. Anything else we don't know? (not aimed at you specifically).

I think all PLD/NIN's, especially those who are new to endgame in general should take ninja to 45~ at least. A primer of shadow tanking is better to learn on beetles and crawlers than it is on Gods and HNM.

Ninja40 is good for bcnm's and you'll learn a good bit about ninja in those 8 levels of actually having a spell that nin needs to have to tank. You might discover, like I did, that *gasp* the job's actually pretty nice :D.

[Talint]

Jesus fucking christ some of you people are stubborn and dense.

No one here said you have to level ninja to be a good pld

Alot of pld/nins that dont have nin main are lazier with their shadows.

Maybe you should try articulating your point better then? There's an implication there that if you don't have NIN at 75, you suck with shadows.

Taking a job to 75 might help you understand game mechanics better, yes. But it's still a game of numbers at the end of the day. If you know the mechanics, you know the mechanics, and don't need to take a job to 75 learn things you might already know. And yes, there is always things to learn and find out.

A PLD/NIN who is lazy with shadows is just that, a PLD/NIN who is lazy with shadows. If they take Ninja to 75, they might get better. But see Rocl's point below.

I mean seriously how can you argue this? Leveling almost any job can only help your skill with others. Assuming you're not retarded.

That's a pretty big assumption.

[Furionstormrage]

Maybe you should try articulating your point better then? There's an implication there that if you don't have NIN at 75, you suck with shadows.

I didn't get that from his post at all.

[Capo]

Except for Bard. Bard doesn't teach you shit.

it taught me not to run from songs on melee jobs!

as for shadow counting i learned my method by asking somebody who was nin 75 how he managed his then went out and tried it, and ive stuck to that my whole career. maybe by levelling nin myself i would learn a few things but i doubt its going to change enough to warrant all that time spent that could be used to lvl something more useful to me

[Brill Weave]

Once you learn to pre-cast ichi a shield skill setup pretty much becomes mute. But that's just my take on it.

I understand your stance on this, but this statement makes no sense to me. I've been in endgame for a long time and I've tanked the entire time. I've done the prerequisite leveling of Ninja to level 37 etc. But I fail to see how "learning" to pre-cast Ichi is going to negate a shield set up. What if a double attack occurs wiping out your last shadow on the first and nailing you on the second in mid pre-cast? You're statement is far too much of a blanket argument. I like to think that I'm a pretty damn good Paladin, but even with being proactive there are still too many times where you can get caught with shadows down or in midcast, learning has nothing to do with it.

You can take without a shield setup, my power to you. But I think that if you had a shield setup it would only optimize your performance even more.

[kayn]

I'm not going to say you're wrong. You've been tanking far longer than me. You've found what works for you. I too have been in that situation. What I do is eye my ni recast timer cause usually it's up or nearly up or i mash my macro for repraisal followed by my ichi macro. These situations just never occurred often enough for these two solutions not to be viable. Again, to each his own.

Ok, a little more.
A hypothetical situation where a shield skill setup would be useful. Khim, 1 bard, elegy wears waiting on elemental seal recast.
Khim triple attacks a lot so it's easy to be caught with your shadows down. A shield skill setup would help you lower the damage you're taking when you get smacked but generally it won't take long for you to go down if you're solo tanking. I've been lucky enough to have good co-tanks for these kind of hairy situations.
Being able to pass hate easily between co-tanks has been more important to me than a shield skill setup.