Paladin Shield Skill Armor: Vital Equipment or Myth?

[Callisto]

I don't, but I didn't bitch about that part lol. Someone else mentioned it, but the whole camping Kote/Kyahan deal pretty much solidifies that I will never level NIN past 37, lol.

[Neosutra]

I leveled nin right after leveling pld and it was a huge sigh of relief (this was back when pld -never- got invites and nin was the "if we dont have a nin, im not partying" job). It was nice back then to be able to keep hate, do damage, and take almost no damage. I really loved nin for exp and meriting back then and kinda wish it would get some love so I could play it more. The fact remains now that pld is better than nin is 'most' end game activies (not meriting), and due to my pld gear I dont really have any areas my nin would be superior. That combined with the fact that mnk is generally superior for merits and low manning events where I need a melee with good DoT and survivability have made me all but store my nin equipment =/

[Siralin]

I don't, but I didn't bitch about that part lol. Someone else mentioned it, but the whole camping Kote/Kyahan deal pretty much solidifies that I will never level NIN past 37, lol.

Fuck those god damn NMs. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-

[Max™]

-FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU UUUUUUUUUUUUU-

[richardd]

I leveled nin right after leveling pld and it was a huge sigh of relief (this was back when pld -never- got invites and nin was the "if we dont have a nin, im not partying" job). It was nice back then to be able to keep hate, do damage, and take almost no damage. I really loved nin for exp and meriting back then and kinda wish it would get some love so I could play it more. The fact remains now that pld is better than nin is 'most' end game activies (not meriting), and due to my pld gear I dont really have any areas my nin would be superior. That combined with the fact that mnk is generally superior for merits and low manning events where I need a melee with good DoT and survivability have made me all but store my nin equipment =/

yeah, very well sums it up. Thats how it it worked out for me -the pld part. A lot of endgame nins dont really take it that level further to go out and tank something, because most now a days are too scared/intimidated to step it up. It takes a lot more gearsets/hassle/windower macros and (this is coming from someone who tanked with an aegis on my friend's account on multiple HNM and Jailers) maybe a little more skill ;x. Ill always be convinced that a good nin can be just as effective as a 120m shield, but if the 120m shield can do you what you do with less stress and hassle, why fight it? Even if it does take them a little longer to get to cap compared to other jobs. Nin for me is a tank job only now, like you, even for me i use mnk rather than nin for DD/tanking situations, or sam/war.

edit: i guess i should toss my suppa now huh?! max would kick my butt if i used it on war <_> dual weild is soooo the flinstones erra!

[Max™]

Eh, if you're gonna dual wield, do it right, I'd get a Suppa if I ever went /Nin for more than Utsusemi.

[Jhun]

My only concern with that is Tourbillion (which has the potential to one shot).

Tourbillion will never ever one shot a PLD (a well equiped one) unless maybe it's a back to back Toourbs without erasing DEF-Down. But blame your mages on that.

[Cadsuane]

We went through 5 sets of pain last time. We wiped the first time due to missing some stuns and had it recover to 100% before we took it down again. The real problem was the 2 plds getting the shit beat out of them. I spent most of the fight in my Oshi damage redection gear just hoping for a chance to get shadows back up (that would be wiped again 2 seconds later). I may just go pld/war next time and and go full on turtle mode. My only concern with that is Tourbillion (which has the potential to one shot). We limited our TP on the 2nd-5th fight and focused more on support and it went fine, but still one of the most stressful things to tank so far.

Is PLD/DRK still not in vogue for blood tanking or something? That sub is sort of a no brainer if you're going to be walking around double marched.

[Neosutra]

Not if the extra hate you get through spells/JAs is lost via the extra damage you take from not having defender (+voke/warcry).

[Callisto]

Aside from not working vs. a mob that builds Stun resist and has a move that you really don't want it resisting stun on, /DRK is still decent for some stuff. ToAU44 is the obvious one, but I've seen it work really well in Dynamis too.

Edit: I also use it on the the Bhaflau/Wajoam ZNMs that you do using the kite around tower strate, Dea/Malboro/etc.

[Cadsuane]

Not if the extra hate you get through spells/JAs is lost via the extra damage you take from not having defender (+voke/warcry).

Which I can't see ever being the case...

Aside from not working vs. a mob that builds Stun resist and has a move that you really don't want it resisting stun on, /DRK is still decent for some stuff. ToAU44 is the obvious one, but I've seen it work really well in Dynamis too.

Edit: I also use it on the the Bhaflau/Wajoam ZNMs that you do using the kite around tower strate, Dea/Malboro/etc.

Fair enough, but that's still a caveat you probably wouldn't have to consider very often. /DRK should be alot more prevalent for PLDs than it tends to be.

[Judai]

I leveled NIN after PLD and didn't learn anything I didn't already know. I already knew how to Ichi>Ni and I prioritize keeping Ichi up anyways to make shadow casting easier. I actually enjoed leveling NIN and enjoy tanking certain mobs with it over PLD but unless you have problems with shadows on PLD, I don't see anything you will suddenly learn by leveling NIN. It's really kind of a silly point to try and push on people.

I didn't really have any major problems with Tyger but we didn't have anyone TPing on it. The two PLDs we used on our second Tyger run did have some problems but I don't think they ever tanked Khim 20+ like I did anyways. I think our trouble was more due to being told it didn't build stun resist and as it turns out, it did build resist on us just as we got to Fulm HP and it wrecked us. (Ended up wiping a couple times and Bio Zombieing it for awhile so we could finish it off.)

[Neosutra]

Good luck going pld/drk to that fight and using marches. You would get the living shit beat out of you. The added hate from the few spells you can cast would not make up for the amount of hate you lost through damage recieved. The reason pld/war would be superior is the ability to use defender + minne's to bump down your damage taken enough to reliably keep hate with just voke/flash JAs.

But go pld/drk to this and let me know how it goes.

Edit: Jud - You didnt have any TP on it? Smn damage? Blms?

[WraithLakshmi]

Good players already understand how jobs work without needing to level them. I don't need to level ninja to 75 to understand how it works. You may figure out or learn something that you didn't know before by doing so, but any good player will know how which job does what. First hand experience isn't necessary to be good.

This is so rediculous. So basically you are saying that someone who went out and bought a level 75 character of a job they had never played before will be just as good as someone who has been 75 at that job since 2004 and actually leveled it themselves? I don't know what your main job is, but if someone who just hit 75 on your job, regardless of how good of a player they are, is just as good as you are on it, then maybe you aren't very good at your job.

[Callisto]

He's saying that once you understand the basic mechanics of the game such as how enmity works, how acc/atk/str/whatever work, how to count shadows, and how to deal with specific types of mobs and their menu of moves, you can apply that to more jobs than just the ones you have at 75.

You may learn a couple of little tricks leveling new jobs(which is why almost everyone agreed that leveling another job to 75 could do nothing but help), but once you understand the basics of the game they don't change from job to job.

[kandiekane]

Everyone is saying you will learn something from leveling nin in addition to pld, but nobody is saying what those things actually are!

Some things that I learned throughout my tanking career as thf > nin > pld > rdm.

1. Ichi right after something casts GA3 on you will finish casting after the spells hits you.
2. Taking a hit or two after ichi shadows run out before casting Ni will allow your ichi timer to come back faster, can also cure yourself for hate after that.
3. Always cast reprisal after Ni, so your ichi is less likely to be interrupted.
4. Sometimes it's better to not use any hate actions until your co-tank is at the same hate level (don't hog hate).
5. Try to fit in all Ja's and self cures after ichi, so you can get Ni back up, rather than after Ni and can't get ichi back up.
6. Recast ichi whenever your co-tank gets hate if possible.
7. Ichi will still go off on long delay multi-hitting mobs while they're hitting you if you cast right at the first hit.
8. Recast plugin or /recast "Utsusemi: X" is your friend.
9. Cover is your co-tanks friend if they are having problems with ichi.
10. Curing your melee gives you more hate than curing yourself.

I think the most important thing you learn from leveling Ninja to 75 is not how to better manage your own shadows. It allows you to improve your skill when co-tanking with a Ninja. You know what areas they are more weak too and can anticipate things with better judgment. Same with leveling rdm, will teach you what you need to do when tanking with another rdm.

Does anyone go as far as counting shadows for their co-tank to anticipate when to flash/sentinel/rampart and pull hate for them to recast? That's when you really are a good tank imo.

[Neosutra]

I count shadows of my cotanks...

If they would ever take hate.

[Valisk]

I count shadows of my cotanks...

If they would ever take hate.

/eyeroll

[Neosutra]

I wish it werent true Q.Q

[Asdrabael]

Everyone is saying you will learn something from leveling nin in addition to pld, but nobody is saying what those things actually are!

Some things that I learned throughout my tanking career as thf > nin > pld > rdm.

1. Ichi right after something casts GA3 on you will finish casting after the spells hits you.
2. Taking a hit or two after ichi shadows run out before casting Ni will allow your ichi timer to come back faster, can also cure yourself for hate after that.
3. Always cast reprisal after Ni, so your ichi is less likely to be interrupted.
4. Sometimes it's better to not use any hate actions until your co-tank is at the same hate level (don't hog hate).
5. Try to fit in all Ja's and self cures after ichi, so you can get Ni back up, rather than after Ni and can't get ichi back up.
6. Recast ichi whenever your co-tank gets hate if possible.
7. Ichi will still go off on long delay multi-hitting mobs while they're hitting you if you cast right at the first hit.
8. Recast plugin or /recast "Utsusemi: X" is your friend.
9. Cover is your co-tanks friend if they are having problems with ichi.
10. Curing your melee gives you more hate than curing yourself.

I think the most important thing you learn from leveling Ninja to 75 is not how to better manage your own shadows. It allows you to improve your skill when co-tanking with a Ninja. You know what areas they are more weak too and can anticipate things with better judgment. Same with leveling rdm, will teach you what you need to do when tanking with another rdm.

Does anyone go as far as counting shadows for their co-tank to anticipate when to flash/sentinel/rampart and pull hate for them to recast? That's when you really are a good tank imo.

What does it mean if I know all that just from playing pld/nin, and I knew all that before I ever leveled paladin from watching people in my ally do it?