Obama names Hillary Clinton to Cabinet. But wait! Can he?

[oldoldman]

Obama likely to name Hillary Clinton to Cabinet. But wait! Can he?

The president-elect, no-drama Barack Obama, is expected to name his new secretary of State, all-drama Hillary Clinton, as early as tomorrow as part of the week's rollout for his national security team.

But can he?

Former first lady and New York Senator Hillary Clinton and president-elect Barack Obama during the Democratic primary season

As pointed out by a number of bloggers in recent hours, including our eloquent friend Susan over at Wake Up America, there's a clause in the U.S. Constitution (Article One, Section Six) that prohibits senators (or representatives) from taking a civil office if the legislator has voted to increase the pay for that job.

"No Senator or Representative shall, during the Time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil Office under the Authority of the United States which shall have been created, or the Emoluments whereof shall have been increased during such time; and no Person holding any Office under the United States, shall be a Member of either House during his Continuance in Office."

A president-elect who's a former part-time constitutional law professor, even one without his BlackBerry, presumably is aware of this prohibition, obviously designed to prevent double-dipping and raising your own salary, which is only allowed in Wall Street banks.

And Obama surely knows of its historical precedents.

And if Obama makes the appointment of his former bitter rival, she'll no doubt take office as the point person for U.S. foreign policy.

But the appointment of the loser of the Democratic presidential nomination by the winner of that nomination and of the subsequent general election wouldn't be properly Clintonian without some extra dramatic flourishes. This is likely only the beginning of such chapters.

Apparently, President Nixon ran into the same problem when he wanted to appoint Ohio's Republican Sen. William Saxbe as attorney general.

The solution back then, since dubbed the "Saxbe fix," was for Congress to pass another law (not without some outspoken dissent from Democratic senators, by the way) reducing the AG's pay so Saxbe wouldn't benefit financially from the higher salary he'd previously voted on.

Similar fixes occurred when President Jimmy Carter named Edmund Muskie secretary of State and H. Clinton's own husband Bill named Lloyd Bentsen to head Treasury.

So much for the actual money aspect and strict construction.

We're not lawyers. But we do speak English. And to our eyes that constitutional clause doesn't say anything about getting around the provision by reducing or not benefiting from the increase of said "Emoluments."

It flat-out prohibits taking the civil office if the pay has been increased during the would-be appointee's elected term. Period. Which it has.

This seems more like a TV scriptwriter's trick to keep everyone hanging around through the commercials starting tomorrow.

I don't personally care, just thought it would be a fun topic.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/wash...n-obama-2.html

[_chuchu]

Not very versed on the rules of public offices, but can someone resign from being senator and/or taking a pay cut to obviously accepting whichever is lower before starting?

[Skjie]

Considering the precedent for this, repeatedly, this is someone taking semantics and being a dick.

[GRT]

How much does a secretary of state get paid?

[pohibaba]

It's petty politics, but it's funny none-the-less.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Considering the precedent for this, repeatedly, this is someone taking semantics and being a dick.

Yeah, those precedents seem like the right way to do it. Sure, they don't follow the law to the letter, but the intention of the law is clear and these clearly follow the intention.

[Churchill]

Not that I'm taking my final stand on this issue, but why have laws in the first place?

You're up in arms over CEO's taking advantage of laws, in a year or so you'll be up in arms about the banks doing it and so on and so forth. This situation is hardly different, so either amend the Constitution or she really shouldn't be appointed.

A better example would be the multiple times that the laws against the active duty US Military being used to patrol US Cities. This is illegal, is still illegal, but by executive order is allowed. There was a reason for all of the laws placed in the Constitution. Money should be controlled by the government with no private Central bank, a military is used for foreign defense, checks and balances, voting rights, separation of church and state, etc. All too often are these loopholes used, but at some point (and like I said, I'm not using this example as my final stand) you have to ask when enough is enough.

inb4whitemaleswithlandandslavery

[Skjie]

Yeah, those precedents seem like the right way to do it. Sure, they don't follow the law to the letter, but the intention of the law is clear and these clearly follow the intention.

I... think I'm being wooshed. That said, at least your country isn't doing what mine is!

[Churchill]

I... think I'm being wooshed. That said, at least your country isn't doing what mine is!

No, that was serious.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Oh look Churchill is being a cunt and missing the point

How quaint.

[Maxxthepenguin]

I... think I'm being wooshed. That said, at least your country isn't doing what mine is!

Half-joke. I worded it in a creepy way for the creepy factor, but in this case, as long as the soon to be secretary of state isn't a beneficiary of the pay raise, I think justice is being done.

[Churchill]

I guess I missed the point where the Constitution was being subverted.

[Charla]

That said, at least your country isn't doing what mine is!

You can say that again! And our whole government speaks the same language, and nobody gets appointed by any foreign monarchs. Imagine that!

(yes, I just spent the last few hours reading about Canadia's liberal coalition situation).

[Maxxthepenguin]

What's going on in Canada?

[Skjie]

Basically, the Government has lost the support of the house of commons, and due to how our electoral process works, the opposition have come up with a plan to allow the parliament to continue without an election. As this basically has Dion sucking the Bloc off, this is semi-bad.

Also, a lot of people who have no fucking clue how our government works are trying to say this is undemocratic. (Not that allowing 40% of the vote to create the government is really any better).

Edit: for the record, I blame Harper for being a total cunt for the past two years and not expecting this to finally blow up in his face.

[Maxxthepenguin]

I know Celine Dion is important to you guys, but you really shouldn't have elected her.

And are there any links describing wtf all that is talking about? I don't know your system very well at all, so I need infos

[Skjie]

I know Celine Dion is important to you guys, but you really shouldn't have elected her.

And are there any links describing wtf all that is talking about? I don't know your system very well at all, so I need infos

Lots of links, but this is basically it:

1) Election, lots of people are elected into the house of commons.

2) The partys each tally up who has the most people, the leader of that party goes to the Governor General (The Queen's representative) and asks to be the Prime Minister (She says yes)

3) Happy days, etc.

What happened here:

After step 2, a few weeks in the Finance Minister gives his report on how the country is doing, and instead of providing stimulus like people expected, he decided to cut funding for the parties (Basically bankrupting all of them except his own) and a bunch of other dick moves. The opposition parties (who together have more seats than Harper's party does, due to him only winning a minority government last time [he has the most seats, but not more than 50% of the house]) decide to fuck him, they want to make a coalition. As any bill brought forward by the Government is a confidence vote (meaning the house must vote to pass it or the Government is said to have lost the confidence of the people and must resign) this meant the Government was going to fall. To prevent this, Harper delayed the vote on the economic update and took a bunch of stuff out. At this point, the opposition were good and riled up, so they didn't really care.

Which brings us to now:

The opposition (Dion, Layton and Duceppe) have sent a letter to the GG saying that should the Government fall, rather than force an election, they would like to give Dion a chance at being Prime Minister, and they promise to support him for at least 18 months.

Harper is trying to porogue parliament, that is he wants to pause it until the new year when he can put out a full budget which would likely have stimulus in it. Dion and Layton are saying this is basically shit and if he can't face the music he needs to get the fuck out.

Harper is slinging mud frantically tryin to convince Canadians that this is undemocratic and a breach of freedom, and Dion is frantically trying to say otherwise. What it all comes down to is the GG is back in Canada from a trip abroad on Wednesday and Harper needs to convince her to pause the session until late January in order to allow him to make a budget. If she decides that it is not in the countries best interest to do so, a motion tabled by Dion set to be voted on on Monday will bring down the government. At that point, Harper would go to the GG and ask her to call an Election, but she has the right to give Dion and the coalition a chance first, should she so choose.

[Charla]

I know Celine Dion is important to you guys, but you really shouldn't have elected her.

Unfortunately, this is basically what I though the first time I saw the name Dion in an article about this (although I considered the possibility that Stephane might be Celine's sister or some distant relative). Naturally, I also thought Stephane Dion was a she until I read another article which referred to him with a pronoun.

And are there any links describing wtf all that is talking about? I don't know your system very well at all, so I need infos

What I used. For more details of the system itself, try wikipedia.


Anyone else thing this should maybe have its own thread?

[Dimmauk]

That Hillary, she knew when she voted for the pay raise, that she would run for president, spend millions of dollars, and lose on purpose so she can get nominated as secretary of state. Very smart lady if you ask me.

[Kurp]

This is pretty laughable since the $190k(?) a cabinet member earns is a small amount for them. I'm waiting for Hillary to say she'll do it without pay.