Rogue in Wrath

[Eanae]

In a non-optimized group of randoms I'm able to pull 3300-4200 dps. 8000 on Thaddius, 7000 on Loatheb. I assume with a properly optimized raid group I'd be able to pull 300-500 more dps. 3.0.8 is bringing alot more classes "down a notch" and hopefully on par with where rogues are at. Remember that Naxx isn't exactly a great place to judge rogue dps as most mobs in Naxx are not murderable.

[Boyiee]

Thaddius and Loatheb can't be counted lol. Patchwerk is your comparison fight for rogues. Mage beat us by alot more then the little we'd get from murder.

[Eanae]

Thaddius and Loatheb can't be counted lol. Patchwerk is your comparison fight for rogues. Mage beat us by alot more then the little we'd get from murder.

Frostfire spec is also being nerfed in 3.0.8 if I recall correctly?

[Korietsu]

Frostfire spec is also being nerfed in 3.0.8 if I recall correctly?

Nope, no changes. :D. Its pretty much the best spec, and scales properly, rather than how shitty it did in BC, for the moment at least. Really, the aspect of it that makes it so good is how the crit mechanics work with it as it gets 315% crits after ignite. The only change that affects FFB in 3.0.8 is the change that affects the frost tree as well. Because of its unique damage type, and the fact it benefits from frost talents, it was getting 6% hit off elemental precision just like ordinary frost spells, and that's been happening since BC came out at least.

As an aside, DPS teir should be imo:

Rogue/mage > Hunter/Lock > Hybrids.

[Arvin]

Nope, no changes. :D. Its pretty much the best spec, and scales properly, rather than how shitty it did in BC, for the moment at least. Really, the aspect of it that makes it so good is how the crit mechanics work with it as it gets 315% crits after ignite. The only change that affects FFB in 3.0.8 is the change that affects the frost tree as well. Because of its unique damage type, and the fact it benefits from frost talents, it was getting 6% hit off elemental precision just like ordinary frost spells, and that's been happening since BC came out at least.

As an aside, DPS teir should be imo:

Rogue/mage > Hunter/Lock > Hybrids.

Or maybe there really shouldn't be "tiers" considering it would cause classes balance thrown off? Didn't you play FFXI? Classic example of how if one class doesn't do as good as another, it gets shit on.

[sb]

As an aside, DPS teir should be imo:

Rogue/mage > Hunter/Lock > Hybrids.

I tend to feel it should look more like:

Hunter/Lock > Rogue/mage > Hybrids.

I don't have anything against Rogue or Mage (hell, one my of high levels is a mage). I just feel two specific classes shouldn't get to be overly dominant in both the PvE world and the PvP world. Spread the wealth a little so to say.

Edit:

Or maybe there really shouldn't be "tiers" considering it would cause classes balance thrown off? Didn't you play FFXI? Classic example of how if one class doesn't do as good as another, it gets shit on.

What he said too.

[Boyiee]

I tend to feel it should look more like:

Hunter/Lock > Rogue/mage > Hybrids.

I don't have anything against Rogue or Mage (hell, one my of high levels is a mage). I just feel two specific classes shouldn't get to be overly dominant in both the PvE world and the PvP world. Spread the wealth a little so to say.

Edit:
What he said too.

I'll agree with that, and I'd take a pvp nerf in order to get a pve buff - I'd play another class for that If I had too.

Oh wait, we are getting a pvp nerf... and a pve nerf... and no buffs when we are already on the bottom. Nevermind then I guess! But still, I'd take the dominant in one aspect and not another.

Although, you must not have arena'd much. Hunters in 3's S3ish/tourny time. Where art thou pvp/pve dominance.

[Korietsu]

I did play FFXI, I played RDM and got to be team bitch at all the events taking deaths, being blamed for deaths, being blamed for not enough DPS even though there's no need for me to DPS.

For the amount of utility brought to raids, rogue/mage should be at the top of the pure DPS classes, lock/hunter next, and finally hybrids, the margins shouldn't be drastically different, and of course certain fights will cater to certain classes, but you should see that hierarchy. Also, you have to look at the stupid amount of gear required and level of play required. Locks/Hunters don't have to watch out for boss AoE, nor deal with raid debuffs. Rogues have to be quite a bit more mindful of their surroundings and loses the most DPS to raid AoE/Movement. Mages have to pay attention to debuffs on both mobs and players and make sure that they're dispelled properly and quickly.

[Naramaska]

Locks/Hunters don't have to watch out for boss AoE, nor deal with raid debuffs.

Our pets do, and they're even stupider than most PUG's

Add to the fact that void zones are nearly invisible from that distance with that much stuff around the bosses, or whatever other random enviromental hazard happens to be about, and you'd be surprised how OCD you have to be to prevent ~15-50% of your damage from disappearing.

[Correction]

Let's not turn this into an official wowforums discussion with the linear class > class > class rubbish. It's endless.

Rogues should really be doing top-tier damage on fights where you don't move. They're not. GC has made very few waves about what's being done, but he has indicated that he thinks rogue damage is low for fights with very little movement involved.

The talent trees all need serious review. The HaT bug put up big numbers, but that's getting fixed in 3.0.8, and DPS will drop, pushing more into Mutilate, where all the 'we don't like mandatory talents' mucking about has produced mandatory investment of 5 points in assassination, 10 points in combat and 5 points in subtlety. But here's the sad truth. Those same points are mandatory for ALL rogues. No other class suffers from having to spread out their points like this to avoid gimping their baseline DPS.

FA and CP both need reworking so Haste Rating and Weapon Speed aren't so heavily weighted as they is right now for rogues. It's fucking stupid that the upgrade path for a lot of rogues ignores 99% of weapons in favor of the fastest offhands in the game, a problem they've had since Latro's.

[Slott]

Eh...omen of clarity is mandatory for every single druid spec (tank, heal, boomy dps, kitty dps) You need a minimum of 11 in resto spec no matter what spec you go. I don't see it as a necessarily bad thing to have great talents located within all trees.

[Correction]

Eh...omen of clarity is mandatory for every single druid spec (tank, heal, boomy dps, kitty dps) You need a minimum of 11 in resto spec no matter what spec you go. I don't see it as a necessarily bad thing to have great talents located within all trees.

Now imagine if Feral Aggression increased spell crit and Genesis increased physical damage and you'd have a situation comparable to Rogues.

There's nothing wrong with having good talents spread out across the trees, that's what gives them appeal and flavor. I'm not advocationg a 1.0 Prot Paladin tree so that all talent choices are easy. The problem is that our talents throw off the balance of itemization so badly that every fucking rogue wants Webbed Death and nothing but. And that's bullshit.

[Kytele]

MMO-Champion BlueTracker - GC it is my bday and i have a wish!

muy interesante

[Correction]

Those fixes won't really change that weapon speed has too much of an effect on Rogue damage right now. Buffing haste would make the situation even worse for item competition, actually.

It is strange that they'd want to make Haste/ArP significantly better, since those two were the 'NQ' stats you'd see on low-tier raid gear before you started seeing the hit/crit/agi distributions on high-tier raid gear when Ulduar/ICC come out. By comparison, Vanilla WoW used to do shit like put Spirit and Dodge on lower tier Rogue gear to make it NQ (hi2u Shadowcraft). Eventually you got to Bonescythe and everything upped your hit and crit.

I assumed the proliferation of ArP and Haste gear was simply mirroring that old philosophy. In fact, I remember a blue post about it somewhere. I guess they're reversing that thinking.

[Boyiee]

We just need a good Ass. tree glyph. That would make me happy for a little while.

[Norellicus]

Those fixes won't really change that weapon speed has too much of an effect on Rogue damage right now. Buffing haste would make the situation even worse for item competition, actually.

It is strange that they'd want to make Haste/ArP significantly better, since those two were the 'NQ' stats you'd see on low-tier raid gear before you started seeing the hit/crit/agi distributions on high-tier raid gear when Ulduar/ICC come out. By comparison, Vanilla WoW used to do shit like put Spirit and Dodge on lower tier Rogue gear to make it NQ (hi2u Shadowcraft). Eventually you got to Bonescythe and everything upped your hit and crit.

I assumed the proliferation of ArP and Haste gear was simply mirroring that old philosophy. In fact, I remember a blue post about it somewhere. I guess they're reversing that thinking.

GC's weird sometimes. He's made several comments in recent weeks about ArP being more powerful on low armored targets and how they want to make it more appealing vs high armor, when in fact the opposite is true based on TTL mechanics.

Who knows what he's thinking lol

[Kytele]

Still waiting on Webbed death to drop for the 2493304th year in a row it seems. I've had terrible luck with last bits of gear.

I had this other paragraph of Rogue QQ but i'm not even going to bother.

[Eanae]

Still waiting on Webbed death to drop for the 2493304th year in a row it seems. I've had terrible luck with last bits of gear.

I had this other paragraph of Rogue QQ but i'm not even going to bother.

I think I've seen about six webbed deaths now. I passed on getting a second one so I was able to get my Sinister Revenge this week. I'll trade you a webbed death for some melee leather drops. All we seem to get is healing plate and caster accessories.

[Boyiee]

I'm still waiting on first WD, although, I don't run 25's currently I only pug them. Still a bitch.

[Spoony Bob]

Upcoming 3.1 class changes: rogue, priest, shaman - WoW Insider

ROGUE

* Hunger for Blood – instead of a self-buff, this ability can only be used when there is a bleed effect on the target. However, it has no stacks and grants a 15% damage bonus.
* Adrenaline Rush – the cooldown on this ability has been lowered.
* Lightning Reflexes – reduced to 3 ranks. In addition to 2/4/6% dodge, this talent now also grants 4/7/10% passive melee haste.
* Killing Spree – while this ability is active, the rogue does 20% additional damage.
* Savage Combat – now causes 2/4% physical damage done.
* Mace Specialization – this talent now grants haste in addition to armor penetration.