Prop 8: The Musical

[Xiona]

uh i thought most cultures in Africa married solely based on property. so much to the point that if a man was out working and never home and his wife got pregnant from another man through infidelity he still called it his child because his wife is his and everything is seen in those terms of ownership, even children.

[Lee]

Legitimizing gay marriage is legitimizing gayness and in turn will make it much more open in society and becoming much more prevalent in T.V., media, e.t.c.. I really prefer that my kids and my future generations don't come up with the belief that being gay is natural, because it's NOT. If you believe being gay is natural, a way of living that is in tune with nature... then you need to look at homosexuality for a second. Everything about it defies nature. Hopefully I don't need to explain.

My suggestion is to open up a small partnership plan so couples of the same sex can pay the same bills/w.e.. In my opinion, homosexuality should remain a hidden and small aspect of society and never should be catapulted into the 'norms' which is what legalizing homosexual marriage would do.

Is it hate to want to preserve the 'natural' way of living in your society?

Devil's Advocate away!...

[Correction]

Is it hate to want to preserve the 'natural' way of living in your society?

Devil's Advocate away!...

Heterosexual matrimony, and for that matter monogamy, aren't particularly inline with the 'nature' of the human reproductive cycle, either.

[Fistandantilus]

Heterosexual matrimony, and for that matter monogamy, aren't particularly inline with the 'nature' of the human reproductive cycle, either.

But the Church says that's what you're supposed to do, that means it is the natural way!

[Lee]

But the Church says that's what you're supposed to do, that means it is the natural way!

My dick and her vagina, and then 9 months later a baby popping out says it's the natural thing to do.

[Julian]

Legitimizing gay marriage is legitimizing gayness and in turn will make it much more open in society and becoming much more prevalent in T.V., media, e.t.c.. I really prefer that my kids and my future generations don't come up with the belief that being gay is natural, because it's NOT.

God forbid kids learn about something that's real and happens. (Spoilers: That's one of the definitions of natural.)

Do you know how hard it is growing up, knowing that you're different, but you can't understand it, and you can't say or do anything about it besides hide it, because it's either looked down upon, or even worse, not mentioned at all?

[pohibaba]

So, since heterosexuality is the only natural way, there wouldn't be any instances of homosexual behavior in nature, right? This is a completely human phenomenon is your contention, right?

[Kuya]

Heterosexuality, according to this concept of nature that you're using, is also unnatural, because the point would be procreation not recreation.

In the first years of the twentieth century heterosexual and homosexual were still obscure medical terms, not yet standard English. In the first 1901 edition of the "H" volume of the comprehensive Oxford English Dictionary, heterosexual and homosexual had not yet made it.

Neither had heterosexuality yet attained the status of normal. In 1901, Dorland's Medical Dictionary, published in Philadelphia, continued to define "Heterosexuality" as "Abnormal or perverted appetite toward the opposite sex."" Dorland's heterosexuality, a new "appetite," was clearly identified with an "opposite sex" hunger. But that craving was still aberrant. Dorland's calling heterosexuality "abnormal or perverted" is, according to the Oxford English Dictionary's first Supplement (1933), a "misapplied" definition. But contrary to the OED, Dorland's is a perfectly legitimate understanding of heterosexuality according to a procreative norm.

The twentieth century witnessed the decreasing legitimacy of that procreative imperative, and the increasing public acceptance of a new hetero pleasure principle. Gradually, heterosexuality came to refer to a normal other-sex sensuality free of any essential tie to procreation. But only in the mid- 1960s would heteroeroticism be distinguished completely from reproduction, and male-female pleasure sex justified for itself. ...

Between 1877 and 1920 Americans were embarked on The Search for Order, documented in historian Robert H. Wiebe's book of that title. Though Wiebe doesn't mention it, this hunt for regularity gave rise in the arena of sex to the new standard model heterosexuality. This paralleled early-twentieth-century moves to standardize railroad track widths, time zones, business and manufacturing procedures (discussed by Wiebe), as well as to test and regularize intelligence and femininity and masculinity....

In 1923, "heterosexuality" made its debut in Merriam Webster's authoritative New International Dictionary. "Homosexuality" had, surprisingly, made its debut fourteen years earlier, in 1909, defined as a medical term meaning "morbid sexual passion for one of the same sex." The advertising of a diseased homosexuality preceded the publicizing of a sick heterosexuality. For in 1923 Webster's defined "heterosexuality" as a "Med." term meaning "morbid sexual passion for one of the opposite sex." Only in 1934 does "heterosexuality" first appear in Webster's hefty Second Edition Unabridged defined in what is still the dominant modern mode. There, heterosexuality is finally a "manifestation of sexual passion for one of the opposite sex; normal sexuality." Heterosexuality had finally attained the status of norm.

[Correction]

My dick and her vagina, and then 9 months later a baby popping out says it's the natural thing to do.

Arguing the side of only those things you actually believe without being a fucktard playing devil's advocate is the natural thing to do, also.

[Lee]

Arguing the side of only those things you actually believe without being a fucktard playing devil's advocate is the natural thing to do, also.

I didn't even mention my beliefs, I just stated a fact buddy.

[Kuya]

I certainly hope you only have sex for procreation and not for fun, you unnatural bastard, what with your sex for libertine pleasure. UNNATURAL

[Kuya]

btw, stop using technology, tarzan, we need less carbon footprints

[pohibaba]

I didn't even mention my beliefs, I just stated a fact buddy.

Can you restate this fact? I looked all through your post and all I saw was pointless Christian dogma.

[ZarakiKujata]

Legitimizing gay marriage is legitimizing gayness and in turn will make it much more open in society and becoming much more prevalent in T.V., media, e.t.c.. I really prefer that my kids and my future generations don't come up with the belief that being gay is natural, because it's NOT. If you believe being gay is natural, a way of living that is in tune with nature... then you need to look at homosexuality for a second. Everything about it defies nature. Hopefully I don't need to explain.

My suggestion is to open up a small partnership plan so couples of the same sex can pay the same bills/w.e.. In my opinion, homosexuality should remain a hidden and small aspect of society and never should be catapulted into the 'norms' which is what legalizing homosexual marriage would do.

Is it hate to want to preserve the 'natural' way of living in your society?

Devil's Advocate away!...

Sorry, homosexuality is not prevalent in the media? The places where media gets made has come to terms with people being gay decades ago, hence why you see Will & Grace and other examples I'm too lazy to list. It is perfectly natural, perhaps you need to look at what heterosexuality is really like in nature or in non-Judeo-Christian civilizations, or the fact that homosexuality occurs naturally in animals.

Also, if we are going by legalizing nature, then shouldn't we not also legalize rape? After all the rapist's penis + the victim's vagina makes a healthy natural baby in 9 months. Pretty piss poor attempt at devil's advocate because its essentially the bullshit religious/morality argument, instead of some kind of logical argument one way or the other.

And Kuya, I meant I was done arguing gay marriage with you period, we are both set in our beliefs and continued discourse would not really change anything one way or the other I'm sure.

[Kuya]

And Kuya, I meant I was done arguing gay marriage with you period, we are both set in our beliefs and continued discourse would not really change anything one way or the other I'm sure.

Cop out.

Can you restate this fact? I looked all through your post and all I saw was pointless Christian dogma.

I wouldn't call it religious dogma, maybe misapplied logic.

[Lee]

I love how you guys are using an argument that says it's not natural to have recreational sex with the opposite gender, therefore "you heteros are not natural either!".

I can tell you that in general terms of sexual activity, it is natural to have a man and a woman having sex while having a man+man/woman+woman combo being unnatural. It is what is supposed to happen - a penis fits into a vagina, while a vagina can't fit into a vagina and a penis can't fit into a penis.

And actually, I'm intrigued at this homosexuality in animals bit. Show me some animals that are homosexual in their RELATIONSHIPS, and not just displaying dominance (Like Lions do.). Also fish don't count since they change their gender in order to conform in a new relationship.

Also Christian Dogma would be using the bible for backing - I haven't mentioned the bible once in my previous posts. Simple observation and logical conclusion comes to mind here.

[Jefe]

All this shit about "If it happens in nature then it must be natural" bullshit is irrelevant and that goes to both sides. What is in question here are individual's equal rights. Such simple concept, yet hard to grasp.

[Julian]

I love how you guys are using an argument that says it's not natural to have recreational sex with the opposite gender, therefore "you heteros are not natural either!".

I can tell you that in general terms of sexual activity, it is natural to have a man and a woman having sex while having a man+man/woman+woman combo being unnatural. It is what is supposed to happen - a penis fits into a vagina, while a vagina can't fit into a vagina and a penis can't fit into a penis.

And actually, I'm intrigued at this homosexuality in animals bit. Show me some animals that are homosexual in their RELATIONSHIPS, and not just displaying dominance (Like Lions do.). Also fish don't count since they change their gender in order to conform in a new relationship.

Penis fits into the mouth and the butt.

And lol @ animal relationships

also, thank you for not responding to my previous post.

[Correction]

I didn't even mention my beliefs, I just stated a fact buddy.

I saw no facts in your initial spew of flamebait, buddy.

And it still looks like you're doing nothing more than trolling. Way to promote the natural order.

[Kuya]

homosexual in their RELATIONSHIPS

What?

I love how you guys are using an argument that says it's not natural to have recreational sex with the opposite gender, therefore "you heteros are not natural either!".

Was your argument that female and male sex may lead to reproduction hence it's natural, or that the penis fits into the vagina hence it's natural?