War on Christmas 08

[Galkaeater]

I'll admit I didn't read this post because I couldn't get past the first line. Every time one of these threads pop up I feel I have to type this.

Agnostic is a statement of knowledge, not of belief. There is no such thing as "I'm an agnostic," and then ending it there. By definition, that says nothing about your belief. Agnostic is added to your statement of belief. For example, I don't believe in god, which makes me an Atheist. I also claim to not have full knowledge and am open to the fact there may in fact be a god, but for the time being, I choose not to believe.

Therefor. I am an AGNOSTIC ATHEIST

YAAY FOR RANTING ABOUT SHIT THAT IS WRONG, RIGHT ENKIDU?! Good job trying to take the moral high-ground and bashing on something that appears to be something you're part of.

Then should I call you by your first, middle and last name?

[Tomiko]

There's some good news to come from this, from today's local paper:

What hath atheism wrought? A mess | TheNewsTribune.com | Tacoma, WA

State carpenter Jim Buenzli, who first noticed the missing atheist sign Friday morning, said he was fed up by the whole furor. That’s why he applied for permission to place the Festivus pole, which he planned to buy and install next week.

“I got sick of the way these things were going, so I wanted to put some humor into it,” he said. “They’re making a big mockery out of our state on the news.”

[Bingbong]

Actually the Christmas tree came about because of the Native Americans, since native americans thought trees were special or something, they used Christmas trees to try and make it more appealing to them when they were trying to convert them to christiantiy

Actually, the Tree thing is pagan as well. The "evergreen" tree was viewed as a symbol of survivability through harsh winters. They would put lights (candles) in trees nearby, the taking them inside thing didn't come until years later.

[Enkidu]

I'll admit I didn't read this post because I couldn't get past the first line. Every time one of these threads pop up I feel I have to type this.

Agnostic is a statement of knowledge, not of belief. There is no such thing as "I'm an agnostic," and then ending it there. By definition, that says nothing about your belief. Agnostic is added to your statement of belief. For example, I don't believe in god, which makes me an Atheist. I also claim to not have full knowledge and am open to the fact there may in fact be a god, but for the time being, I choose not to believe.

Therefor. I am an AGNOSTIC ATHEIST

YAAY FOR RANTING ABOUT SHIT THAT IS WRONG, RIGHT ENKIDU?! Good job trying to take the moral high-ground and bashing on something that appears to be something you're part of.

Agnostic is not a belief? Well of course it isn't stupid. This doesn't, however, necessitate being an Atheist as by your definition, it's a "belief". People don't have to make a choice for or against a belief in god(s), it's as simple as that. Saying you can't call yourself an Agnostic is simply ridiculous and completely incorrect. You would probably be surprised to know that Carl Sagan also identified as an Agnostic and rejected the Atheist label, much for the same reasons I do.

Also lol at "bashing something I'm part of"... Clueless.

[Zalius]

I'll admit I didn't read this post because I couldn't get past the first line. Every time one of these threads pop up I feel I have to type this.

Agnostic is a statement of knowledge, not of belief. There is no such thing as "I'm an agnostic," and then ending it there. By definition, that says nothing about your belief. Agnostic is added to your statement of belief. For example, I don't believe in god, which makes me an Atheist. I also claim to not have full knowledge and am open to the fact there may in fact be a god, but for the time being, I choose not to believe.

Therefor. I am an AGNOSTIC ATHEIST

YAAY FOR RANTING ABOUT SHIT THAT IS WRONG, RIGHT ENKIDU?! Good job trying to take the moral high-ground and bashing on something that appears to be something you're part of.

maybe you should have actually taken the time to have read past the first line, because that was probably one of the better posts in the thread

[Jer]

I remember like 7yrs ago around Xmas time a group of old people stood in front of my school and gave all the kids who passed by little bibles. Some of the kids who took a bible threw them into the street. As you can guess people were outraged by this and overacted a little too much by saying the school supported the devil lolz.

When I was at college we would get a lot of people like this at the crosswalks for the major streets. We even had one group that set up on the center mall and was there for 2 days, basically insulting nearly everyone; calling any girl who was wearing shorts a whore and whatnot. He got real fired up when I went up to him said in my best demonic voice 'Your god is dead and has abandoned you'. I usually just leave nutters alone, but some are too good to pass up.

[Beckwin]

Fuck the haters, atheism signs/festivus poles/etc ftw.

also the term "angstheist" or any phrase implying it is basically in the category of social Darwinism, Hitler, and emo on this forum. you're all shitty posters.

[Kohan]

My biggest pet peeve on Christmas is the tree. Before I go into this, I am not Christian, but it annoys me to no end when people don't call it a Christmas tree. My favorite was my university calling their tree a "Holiday Spruce" last year. Wtf? Seriously? If you're going to have a tree then fucking call it a Christmas tree, because you know what holiday I think of when I see one? CHRISTMAS. If you want to take the religion out of it then just don't put the damn thing up to begin with!

To be honest, it is perfectly appropriate to call it a holiday spruce, if you want to. You've likely seen Yule mentioned several times already within this thread, and it is normal to call this a Yule tree. "Christmas tree" isn't the only accepted terminology and isn't the only means of referencing it.

Also, noting what kind of tree it is may be important to people. The spruce is not the original, traditional tree, so if you wanted to get into extreme and silly semantics, you could say that a "Holiday Spruce" isn't a real Christmas tree no matter what you call it. "Christmas tree" is a label born of generalization, and it is not the original term, nor is it used unconditionally internationally.

Additionally, to comment on the atheist hatred within this thread: annoying atheists are no better than annoying theists. Are there people within your religion who misrepresent it? Do they irritate you endlessly? Even though atheism is not a following, those who do not follow religions can nonetheless be grouped with the term, and they have their annoying fellows too.

It doesn't do anyone favors when they make hate-fueled, blanket statements toward an entire group. Atheists shouldn't do it to theists, theists shouldn't do it to atheists, else you're just contributing to an endless cycle of angry hypocrisy.

Happy holidays bitches, spend time with your loved ones, spread good cheer and enjoy yourselves.

[Demosthenes11]

idk what there is to argue

believe what you want, don't impose it on others, and call it whatever the fuck you want

Xmas is a fun holiday whether religious or not. Stop shitting on it

[Senoska]

maybe you should have actually taken the time to have read past the first line, because that was probably one of the better posts in the thread

Despite saying I didn't, I did read it to make sure I was on target, which I was.

Agnostic is not a belief? Well of course it isn't stupid. This doesn't, however, necessitate being an Atheist as by your definition, it's a "belief". People don't have to make a choice for or against a belief in god(s), it's as simple as that. Saying you can't call yourself an Agnostic is simply ridiculous and completely incorrect. You would probably be surprised to know that Carl Sagan also identified as an Agnostic and rejected the Atheist label, much for the same reasons I do.

Also lol at "bashing something I'm part of"... Clueless.

Actually, it has nothing to do with your "Choice." Either you believe in god, making you a theist, or you don't, making you an Atheist. You are aware of the subject at hand, so now it becomes a light switch. You believe, or you don't. Atheist or Theist. It's not a title, or set of beliefs that you subscribe to, it's a part of English. You cannot simply say "I reject this." it doesn't work that way. Just to drive the point home; you're a theist, or you're an atheist.

You can keep your religious convictions a secret, and refer to yourself simply as agnostic, but that's simply saying "I have not the knowledge." However, the fact remains that you still DO believe, or DON'T believe something. And you're post hating on what you ascribe to atheism is simply wrong.

A rephrase of what you did:
All Theist dislike green, that's why I call myself Agnostic. While there are some theist who dislike green, it simply isn't the case that all of them think this way, as (a)theism says nothing about belief other than you believe in a god(s)

[Priran]

this is why I can't stand other atheists, they're all a bunch of that guys.

also I think it's pretty funny that people simultaneously complain that christmas is too commercialized and too offensively religious

[Deftscythe]

I don't think I can handle reading another religion thread, but I want to say people who are offended by what is a friendly greeting(whether it be Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays) need to chill the fuck out. Judge the words by their intent, to wish a person well during a festive time of year.

[Neosutra]

A model of a baby/donkey/3wisemen ect is as offensive as a sign that berates all religion?

Yes, they are symbols. Surely you dont believe the baby/donkey/wisemen just represent some random kid in a barn yard? They are a symbol of a religion (which is fine and dandy), but shouldnt be displayed in a place that is state funded. When you have a religion that specifically states that a group of people are "evil" and should be burned alive for all eternity, do you really find it suprising that the group in question would be a bit offended if the state starts endorsing symbols of that religion?

As I said, I have no problems with nativity scenes, I quite enjoy the holidays. I just dont want them at my local court house.

[Vic]

I wonder how a hardcore Christian (Christianity being the majority in the United States) would react to the response of "Happy Hanukkah" or "Happy Kwanzaa" to his or her "Merry Christmas".

Also does anyone else think its harder to spell Christmas than the other holidays because it is for me lol.

[Khamsin]

Doesn't preaching atheism defeat the purpose?

Preaching atheism would only be hypocritical if it was about free thinking and open-mindedness. Atheism is a specific belief, and is not the same as telling people that they are free to think what they want to think. Atheists insist that there are no gods. To suggest that there may be would be blasphemy.

On the other hand, preaching free thinking and forcing people to be open minded would defeat the purpose.

I'll admit I didn't read this post because I couldn't get past the first line. Every time one of these threads pop up I feel I have to type this.

Agnostic is a statement of knowledge, not of belief. There is no such thing as "I'm an agnostic," and then ending it there. By definition, that says nothing about your belief. Agnostic is added to your statement of belief. For example, I don't believe in god, which makes me an Atheist. I also claim to not have full knowledge and am open to the fact there may in fact be a god, but for the time being, I choose not to believe.

Therefor. I am an AGNOSTIC ATHEIST

YAAY FOR RANTING ABOUT SHIT THAT IS WRONG, RIGHT ENKIDU?! Good job trying to take the moral high-ground and bashing on something that appears to be something you're part of.

And I disagree that you can't be agnostic by itself. There's no need for someone to believe there is or is not a god. Think of it in terms of, say, wondering whether a certain 5th order polynomial has a zero solution or not. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but you have to think about it some more to be sure. Chances are you aren't going to go "I don't know yet, but I believe it does" or "I don't know yet, but I don't believe it does". You're just going to say "I don't know yet."

There's a lot of questions about the universe that we just don't know, and you don't have to guess one way or the other if you don't have all the facts. And you may never have all the facts, and some people are ok with that. It's absurd to think that people must believe something. Some believe in god, some believe there is no god, and some don't believe either way. For some people, its no different that asking if you believe that I'm wearing green boxers at the moment. Some will believe I am, some will believe I'm not, and some will think that since they have no way of knowing, and probably don't give a shit, they won't believe either way.

[BRP]

You are right, but often people who are doing the preaching will mention all the bad things that come from religion. Amongst these things are forcing point of views.

[Neosutra]

That's like saying people are intolerant if they dont like prejudice. Why cant we be tolerant of those prejudices, why cant we just accept societal flaws and allow people to express hatred for one another!? Makes no sense. You state that atheists are forcing their point of view by commenting on a public endorsement of a specific religion?

[Demosthenes11]

as previously stated in this thread, 50% of atheists have "that guy" syndrome. When they open their mouth about anything regarding religion, everyone rolls their eyes no matter what they believe, just like they do when psycho-religious people talk about gays

[Eratosthenes]

Atheism is a specific belief, and is not the same as telling people that they are free to think what they want to think. Atheists insist that there are no gods.

No, actually, atheism is not a specific belief; it is everything that isn't theism. Most atheists are agnostics, and don't insist that there are no gods. Not all atheists are agnostics, but all agnostics are atheists, since they do not insist there is a god, for that would make them theists.

[Galkaeater]

but all agnostics are atheists, since they do not insist there is a god, for that would make them theists.

I don't think so Tim.