War on Christmas 08

[Stiker]

For those who believe, no proof is required. For those who doubt, no proof is ever enough.

Both sides of this arguement are stuborn assholes, so I wouldn't respect one mindset more than the other. Both faith and logic are both important human traits. Trying to suggest one is more important than the other is a tough concept to float.

Pretty much sums up what I was trying to say (and much better than I did lol).

[Neosutra]

So demo, is a nativity set at a state building extremist?

What about an atheist sign at one?

[Maguspk]

So demo, is a nativity set at a state building extremist?

What about an atheist sign at one?

Does being sworn in also evoke an emotional response from you? It's just shit man, it's what's popular so we adhere to it, nobody is forcing you to get down and worship the fucking nativity scene, it's there because a majority of the population associates the holiday with it and wants it to be there.

[Demosthenes11]

So demo, is a nativity set at a state building extremist?

What about an atheist sign at one?

The way I see it, the nativity is not solely a religious thing. It can be viewed as a form of art or decoration for a holiday that is religious to only some. The sign is not a decoration or form of art, it is an attack.

The functionality of a nativity and an atheist sign such as this one are completely incomparable. Separation of church and state is not defined as the government can not make any mention of any religion, it means the government can not make a national religion and persecute based on religion. I think that's an important distinction.

[Beckwin]

I don't know how what I said is wrong. When you hear religious people preach and say you are damned, you roll your eyes. When you hear someone preaching about how there is no god and all that believe it are stupid, you roll your eyes. Ok, maybe not you, but normal people.

Extremist either way is annoying as hell. Let people believe what they want and get off any high horse you have about your beliefs

I was poking fun at your 50% figure. I'd argue that percentage wise you have more "extremist" theists, and I think it's indisputable that there are by volume far, far more theist extremists in this country and in this world, making you more likely to actually run into one.

like I said earlier, generalizations involving angstheist, welfare queen, emo, Social Darwinism, etc just marks you as a fail poster.

[Demosthenes11]

I was poking fun at your 50% figure. I'd argue that percentage wise you have more "extremist" theists, and I think it's indisputable that there are by volume far, far more theist extremists in this country and in this world, making you more likely to actually run into one.

like I said earlier, generalizations involving angstheist, welfare queen, emo, Social Darwinism, etc just marks you as a fail poster.

I'll agree with everything you said. It's not like it's possible for me to actually know 50% are like that, but I think it's a general consensus that it's not that far off from accurate from personal experience. Here, I'll revise it for you:
A good portion of atheists I meet fall into the category of "that guy"

better?

[Kurt Cobain]

dimmauk, is that rashad in the fighting gif in your sig?

[Stiker]

Sorry about that, wanted to change my post from a direct insult to your openmindedness to a general explaination for why I dont respect theist views...

But now that I think about it, both are probably equally offensive.

Im glad to hear you are openminded, but I cant help to feel bad that you really think NO evidence is possible to ever change your current perspective.

That's fine, I understand why my position flat out makes no sense to you, and I don't mean that as an insult btw.

Like I said, faith and logic aren't buddies at all. Eventually they are going to clash and you have to end up picking one or the other.

Anyways more on topic:

So demo, is a nativity set at a state building extremist?

What about an atheist sign at one?

Personally, I feel that you need to take one of two stances in regards to such decorations on government property. Either allow every religion/ideology to have a display if they wish, or have none at all (besides maybe lights and a tree). Making a singular decision on only one expression is a horrible decision IMO. It borders on government sanctioning only one religion which isn't their role.

[Neosutra]

Does being sworn in also evoke an emotional response from you? It's just shit man, it's what's popular so we adhere to it, nobody is forcing you to get down and worship the fucking nativity scene, it's there because a majority of the population associates the holiday with it and wants it to be there.

I asked for them to redo my oath of office (army officer) to remove the "so help me god".

It does bother me. Just because alot of theists cant concieve how oppressive it must feel to have any entire society think you should be tortured and burned alive forever doesnt mean the symbols arent pretty offensive to people.

And to demo: Would the nazi symbol at a public building be art?

edit: Nice comments stiker, I agree.

[Demosthenes11]

And to demo: Would the nazi symbol at a public building be art?

in what context? is it nazi day? While many religious kooks are belligerent and retarded in their views and opinions, comparing it to nazi's is so godwin

[Jefe]

And to demo: Would the nazi symbol at a public building be art?

Lol, sometimes I wonder if you are being serious, drunk, or _____. Why are you setting up straw men? Well, w/e the case may be, the very, very few post I don't ignore from you crack me up~

[Correction]

Atheism is increasingly a religion where you worship your own ability to be offended by the beliefs of others. Grow a thicker skin already, for as long as you've been on the internet a little cross is all it takes to offend?

[Stiker]

It does bother me. Just because alot of theists cant concieve how oppressive it must feel to have any entire society think you should be tortured and burned alive forever doesnt mean the symbols arent pretty offensive to people.

I know I shouldn't get off on another aside, but this is one of the thoughts that even being a Christian I still struggle with and I completely agree with Neo on. We believe in a God that is supposed to be benevolent and yet not believing can have that kind of result. It always leads me to ask "well what about people that simply never know anything else?" or "what if those people lead better lives than most religious people?"

I have a very hard time believing that inherently moral and good people are without a doubt damned just because they weren't convinced in God for one reason or another. It seems a bit hypocritical IMO. By that logic, any young baby or child that can't even comprehend religion is damned and people such as Gandhi would be damned since he believed in a different religion. That makes no sense at all to me.

Not to mention, I can't comprehend the fact that people feel they know exactly what Hell or even Heaven is. One of the best explanations that I ever heard from Hell was that "it is simply a complete absence from God". Which, personally, makes a bit more sense than the fire/torture depiction of it. Again, I can't really see God saying "well sorry buddy, enjoy pain for all eternity, tough luck".

Believe whatever you want, but there is no way anyone is going to figure out the eternal-life doctrine to an exact level until they kick the bucket themselves. Trying to tell anyone else otherwise is quite dumb.

Ok...I promise...no more tangents ; ;

[Neosutra]

Lol, sometimes I wonder if you are being serious, drunk, or _____. Why are you setting up straw men? Well, w/e the case may be, the very, very few post I don't ignore from you crack me up~

Posting a symbol of an idealogy that believes a group of people should be tortured and killed in acceptable in one stance and not in the other?

How is it different?

[Correction]

Posting a symbol of an idealogy that believes a group of people should be tortured and killed in acceptable in one stance and not in the other?

How is it different?

Do you still wear your military uniform?

[Demosthenes11]

Posting a symbol of an idealogy that believes a group of people should be tortured and killed in acceptable in one stance and not in the other?

How is it different?

oh come on lol

[Bingbong]

Posting a symbol of an idealogy that believes a group of people should be tortured and killed in acceptable in one stance and not in the other?

How is it different?

I missed the bible passage that says that Good Christians are defined by how many people they have tortured and killed.
You're talking about extremism Neo. You're holding the whole Christian population that believes in the morals of their religion as murderers, and that's kind of ridiculous.

I'd gather most Christians would tell you that if that's what you think being a good Christian at Xmas time is about, then you have missed the boat completely.

Atheism is increasingly a religion where you worship your own ability to be offended by the beliefs of others. Grow a thicker skin already, for as long as you've been on the internet a little cross is all it takes to offend?

While I read this and think "awesome troll bait", I can't but help to think that you are more right than people would admit. Pledge of Allegiance, currency, Xmas? The Atheists are pissed off at some goofy stuff.

[Demosthenes11]

you know what, it's kind of offensive to acknowledge when someone godwin's a thread

[Correction]

Quick, someone photoshop a vBulletin button with the swastika and 'Godwin the Thread' in place of the 'Post Reply' button.

[Neosutra]

I missed the bible passage that says that Good Christians are defined by how many people they have tortured and killed.

You missed the part about non believers going to hell?

Or the part about god killing all of mankind because they were too bad?

Or the part where jesus tells the woman that she is unworthy of his help because she is a dirty non jewish dog("but even dogs get scraps from masters tables").

Or the part where everyone but the chosen ones are casts into the inferno?

You're correct in saying the bible has no passage stating a christian should kill any given group (If we dont count revalations or the old testament..). The problem is that their deity (the one they aspire to be like) condems everyone that doesnt believe to hellish torture for all eternity. How much respect for a person's life do you think people have if they believe that person is an abomination to god himself and even their loving god wants them dead? Oh wait, he doesnt want them dead, they "chose" that for themselves.

A cross, a nazi symbol, they are one in the same. Just because you like one side doesnt mean it is any less offensive.