This is what FOX News and many conservatives actually think:

[Maxxthepenguin]

I would like for you to name one conservative thing Bush has done aside from tax cuts. Liberalism's definition may have changed, but conservatism's definition hasn't.

You seem to forget that he's been a pretty strong social conservative. His first veto was for stem cell research for fuck's sake.

[Beckwin]

what's the point? you're just gonna cherry pick and say "well that's not really conservative hurr hurr hurr" and go on the same no-true-Scotsman bullshit that every other conservative who dislikes Bush does.

The truth is, Bush's policies are really not much different than Ronald Reagan's- massive deficit spending (defense-based), tax cuts for the wealthy, cuts to welfare, internal illegality/scandal, running on a religious and socially conservative platform, environmental policy regression, "spreading democracy" abroad, etc. Toss in some faith-based initiatives and the PATRIOT Act to make W unique. With better luck/better handling in Afghanistan/Iraq and if this recession had not occurred, you'd be singing his praises.

[Beckwin]

oh good point max, I forgot to mention the stem cell ban. he's also made some minor restrictions on abortion and is currently trying to redefine contraception, and give doctors the green light to refuse performing abortions and prescribing birth control/morning after pills.

[Beckwin]

oh and not to mention the conservatively-driven NCLB, which attempted to make sure kids "earned their damn grades" and if they didn't, funding would be cut (yeah, cutting funding is going to help troubled kids).

[thatwasnifty]

I would like for you to name one conservative thing Bush has done aside from tax cuts. Liberalism's definition may have changed, but conservatism's definition hasn't.

His support of the FMA and state amendments to bar equal marriage, the latter in the name of federalism? The significantly decreased funding for embryonic stem cell research? His advocacy of a nationalistic identity at the expense of individualism/diversity?

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Doh, I shoulda said economically/fiscally/etc.

[Beckwin]

let's not forget market deregulation, turning the Justice Dept into a neocon farm team, sponsoring torture, and moving away from international cooperation.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

and moving away from international cooperation.

Ha, who's advocating protectionism?

[Beckwin]

Doh, I shoulda said economically/fiscally/etc.

And here's your fallacy: you attempt to fall back into "well conservatism is ONLY laissez-faire economics" as if all conservatives or branches of conservatism are devoid of government authoritarianism and/or social conservatism.

nice try.

[Beckwin]

Ha, who's advocating protectionism?

I'm talking about ignoring the UN. It's plenty possible for cooperation with protectionist countries; we do plenty business with South Korea.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

And here's your fallacy: you attempt to fall back into "well conservatism is ONLY laissez-faire economics" as if all conservatives or branches of conservatism are devoid of government authoritarianism and/or social conservatism.

nice try.

I just stay away from the social stuff because I don't think either side is wrong/illogical. Except the gay stuff, I just don't get it, the Repub argument.

And the U.N. good god.

[thatwasnifty]

I just stay away from the social stuff because I don't think either side is wrong/illogical. Except the gay stuff, I just don't get it, the Repub argument.

Except that's all part of the Republican platform, so you can't just ignore it when you're discussing the party's proposed policies.

[Beckwin]

And the U.N. good god.

Ah so you agree that Bush has given the UN and international relations a conservative treatment.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Ah so you agree that Bush has given the UN and international relations a conservative treatment.

No, that would be telling them to get out of New York, and that there's 189 countries in the U.N. so were going to pay our fair share for operating expenses, and that there's 189 countries in the U.N. and were going to pay our fair share for the defense budget.

[Beckwin]

my god you're hopeless.

you're still basically trying to say that Right-Libertarianism is the only form of conservatism and anything less extreme or a variation of does not qualify.

I'm done, enjoy your feel-good equivocation.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

It's black and white to me, no gray area. "Big govt. conservatism" and "compassionate conservatism" are just contradictions to me, not variations.

[CaptainKacy]

Oh look it's the same tired No-true-Scotsman bullshit that every Paultard and conservative who isn't motivated to defend Bush pulls. Like it or not, the GOP is the mainstream conservative party, just like the Dems are the mainstream liberal party. You don't see me running around saying the Dems aren't liberal/left just because they don't mirror my socialism, so how about you just man up and accept differences under the umbrella instead of going with ad hoc defenses.

First off, Ron Paul was an idiot, Why should I be motivated to support bush, he is liberal on more things then he is conservative. Im not going to support Bush just so you have someone to argue with. Why do liberals always have to shove their opinions down our throat, If we dont agree with you, you get angry. "Bush and the GOP are conservative and youll like it!". Ok..So you support your political party weither they "mirror your socialism" or not. Why? Is it becuase you always have to win, you have to beat those damn republicans? If I dont agree with the republicans I dont vote for them. Im not just going to say fuck it and vote for them anyway or "man up and accept the differences". Most of the people that do that, the average american voter, are uninformed idiots. They just listen to what a politican says and dont look at what they actually do. So no...I wont be a sheep following a party just becuase they say they hold my beliefs. If your ok doing that, more power to ya. But dont try to force me to be one as well.

[thatwasnifty]

Why should I be motivated to support bush, he is liberal on more things then he is conservative.

I'm sorry. What?

[ZarakiKujata]

First off, Ron Paul was an idiot, Why should I be motivated to support bush, he is liberal on more things then he is conservative. Im not going to support Bush just so you have someone to argue with. Why do liberals always have to shove their opinions down our throat, If we dont agree with you, you get angry. "Bush and the GOP are conservative and youll like it!". Ok..So you support your political party weither they "mirror your socialism" or not. Why? Is it becuase you always have to win, you have to beat those damn republicans? If I dont agree with the republicans I dont vote for them. Im not just going to say fuck it and vote for them anyway or "man up and accept the differences". Most of the people that do that, the average american voter, are uninformed idiots. They just listen to what a politican says and dont look at what they actually do. So no...I wont be a sheep following a party just becuase they say they hold my beliefs. If your ok doing that, more power to ya. But dont try to force me to be one as well.

This post is so fucking funny because I think its a largely held consensus that modern mainstream conservativism is more about shoving ones ideas down somebody elses throat than modern liberals could ever hope for. Name one liberal policy outside of economic/taxes that shoves others' beliefs down someone elses throat at all or moreso then its mainstream conservative alternative.

[pohibaba]

First off, Ron Paul was an idiot, Why should I be motivated to support bush, he is liberal on more things then he is conservative. Im not going to support Bush just so you have someone to argue with. Why do liberals always have to shove their opinions down our throat, If we dont agree with you, you get angry. "Bush and the GOP are conservative and youll like it!". Ok..So you support your political party weither they "mirror your socialism" or not. Why? Is it becuase you always have to win, you have to beat those damn republicans? If I dont agree with the republicans I dont vote for them. Im not just going to say fuck it and vote for them anyway or "man up and accept the differences". Most of the people that do that, the average american voter, are uninformed idiots. They just listen to what a politican says and dont look at what they actually do. So no...I wont be a sheep following a party just becuase they say they hold my beliefs. If your ok doing that, more power to ya. But dont try to force me to be one as well.

Quick question, who did you support during the primary season and who did you vote for in the general election?