Kuno's awesome SMN post

[Silenka]

This is a bit off topic though. I can make it on topic by saying SMNs should be able to give out songs on a weaker level to cut down BRDs a little bit, if only by a tiny amount.

"LOL SMN, let's get a BRD instead"

Nothing will ever change ; ;

[Khamsin]

Regarding Summoners, you have made it clear that new Avatars do exist, but what exactly are you considering?

Gondai: If I say the name, I’ll get yelled at, but they are set to be implemented in the not too distant future.

Tell me about the concept behind these new Avatars.

Gondai: They are different than any of the current ones. The way you use them is a little different. I can’t say any more. (laughs) There will definitely be a battle required to learn them.

It seems that Ixion and Alexander are the most anticipated.

Gondai: Feel free to anticipate them. (laughs) We intend to put together something that will make people happy, so we don’t think anyone will be disappointed in these.

So not only are they huge, but they'll be used differently? I just hope they have Titan's earthpounding sounds as they walk around and get in everyone's way, as I'm pretty sure if they're as big as they've hinted at before, their pathing will suck more than most avatars. It'll be funny watching them walk through small spaces and tunnels, at least.

Still, how different can you get in the way you use an avatar? A main healer or tank avatar? I hope their Astral Flow is decent at 75, at least, and that their perpetuation is reasonable.

[Kang]

Replacing brd, don't make me laugh...

[Nirokun!]

I dream of tanking with an avatar Grand Vizier-style (controlling it moment by moment would be dangerous if you had to issue BPs/commands and be in AoE)~ And i think you know which avatar I'm talking about :D

To the people bickering about semantics for the last 3+ pages--stop. You're all saying the same thing and taking little victories out of it. Communicating the same general idea and finding ways to keep disagreeing is really boring.

[Ninjiz]

Yea, the Essays being written saying the same stuff.. Le sigh

Smn alrdy has a defined roll. Its pretty clear. Everyone is just trying to find ways of Smn to just utilize what it already can do, better.

[Tarage]

You know what I want from SMN?

I want to have summons out doing shit. I don't honestly care if that shit is buffing, healing, DDing, tanking, whatever.

I just would like to be able to see my summons for more than 30 seconds.

[Kaylia]

I hope they give avatar emotes in the next update. DRG and PUP were happy with that.

[BRP]

Titan /dance fuck year

[Acturus]

Titan /dance fuck year

inb4 Sisqo macros

[Shalafi]

I hope they give avatar emotes in the next update. DRG and PUP were happy with that.

This is probably the best idea so far :D

[Starless]

• Summoners can summon multiple pets at once, adding the new pets perpetuation cost to their existing one.
• If a perpetuation cost runs the summoner's mana to 0, the summoner dies!
• Astral Flow is changed so that you can only use it once, but the more active a pet is (without releasing it) and the longer you keep the JA active, the more powerful it will be when you finally release it.

I have no idea where this would go, but it sounds like fun and dangerous as hell, and a good comparison to just how risky (lore-wise) the job of a summoner is.

[Tarage]

• Summoners can summon multiple pets at once, adding the new pets perpetuation cost to their existing one.
• If a perpetuation cost runs the summoner's mana to 0, the summoner dies!
• Astral Flow is changed so that you can only use it once, but the more active a pet is (without releasing it) and the longer you keep the JA active, the more powerful it will be when you finally release it.

I have no idea where this would go, but it sounds like fun and dangerous as hell, and a good comparison to just how risky (lore-wise) the job of a summoner is.

...No no GOD FUCK NO.

These ideas are bad and you should feel bad. If this isn't a joke, I seriously question how you put on pants in the morning.

My god man, what the hell?

[Ohaigaiz]

...No no GOD FUCK NO.

These ideas are bad and you should feel bad. If this isn't a joke, I seriously question how you put on pants in the morning.

My god man, what the hell?

troll'd

[Kenji]

...but I've said since page one that SMNs cannot decide what role they want, and in order to properly fix a class... you need a concrete role.

Okay, you heard that, SMNs? Yugl says we can't decide our role, as players who actually play SMN and know what we're talking about. Apparently, we should all shut up and twiddle our thumbs, and wait until... someone else choose our role for us?

I don't think you understand the concept of core role. The only one that has this multi-core role you speak of is SCH.

Okay, I think you're done. Obviously, COR, RDM, WAR, and NIN only have a single role. Perhaps you should play more of the game, before you post again.

Problem: People can't define that role.

Tell that to all those people that played NIN as a tank when it came out.

Your first comment proves it since some people argue that one of SMN's core roles is healer.

Who? SMN is only a healer with it's SJ. I think *one* person said to add WHM spells to it naturally, to make it a healer. But SMN has 4 healing abilities, and they can only use one of them, once a minute. That's not a reliable healer role.

Look, it's obvious you don't play SMN. Everything you've said has been contrary to what every other SMN has been talking about. If you can't converse on the same level, you are not helping the conversation.

Actually, I've probably been successfully trolled. Good game, sir!

BRD can't completely be replaced by COR or any job really. It is the one job in the game that is essentially always wanted. For example if you make SMN's haste something else that stacks, that really only makes BRD as or more popular than before only now you'll want another type of haste-er too. This is a bit off topic though. I can make it on topic by saying SMNs should be able to give out songs on a weaker level to cut down BRDs a little bit, if only by a tiny amount.

Actually, this is possible. What do people want from BRDs? Pulling, hasting, attack up, accuracy up, MP regen, backup healing. ALso, Elegy debuffs

Pulling = Carby pulling
March = Hastega (buff it so it's just as good, if not better, lasts 5 minutes)
Minuet = Crimson Howl (butt if so it lasts 3-5 minutes, and buff the attack+ some)
Accuracy Up = Ecliptic Howl (make it last 5 minutes, decent acc+ already)
MP Regen = One thing a SMN can't do. But, they can do more backup healing then a bard can.
Elegy = SMN could do slowga, but it's not a big issue.

So, if we buff Crimson Howl and Hastega, then a SMN can be a decent replacement for a BRD. With BRD, you can only have 2 songs. SMN can already get all 3 of those buffs up, just need duration buffed so it's easier to maintain all 3 buffs.

BRD's advantage would be the double songs (double march) for a greater benefit. SMN would be to be able to keep multiple buffs up for a decently long period of time.

Then, make a new avatar that gives AoE store TP+, or AoE Regain.

[evilpaul]

SMN/SCH in meritpo ftwmfw!!!

[Yugl]

Okay, you heard that, SMNs? Yugl says we can't decide our role, as players who actually play SMN and know what we're talking about. Apparently, we should all shut up and twiddle our thumbs, and wait until... someone else choose our role for us?

Cannot decide as in they cannot agree. If you actually read my posts you would have seen that I posted earlier that the SMN community would be responsible for picking a role for SMN. Then again, you've shown time and again that you're a selective reader.

Okay, I think you're done. Obviously, COR, RDM, WAR, and NIN only have a single role. Perhaps you should play more of the game, before you post again.

Yes they do have one core-role. I don't know why, but the concept of a core or main role seems too complicated for you to understand. I'm sure you're one of those guys telling RDM they should get sword updates over enfeebling updates.

Tell that to all those people that played NIN as a tank when it came out.

Again, it's agree on a role. It's pretty obvious by now that you're just skimming through looking for lines to quote and respond to.

Suggestion: Stick to making arguments about morals. You know something more Kenji-like such as "Yugl it's immoral of you to tell SMNs they're gimp!".

Your first comment proves it since some people argue that one of SMN's core roles is healer.

Who? SMN is only a healer with it's SJ. I think *one* person said to add WHM spells to it naturally, to make it a healer. But SMN has 4 healing abilities, and they can only use one of them, once a minute. That's not a reliable healer role.

I've always thought smn should have native cure 1-4, raise 1-2, and pro/shell 1-4, and some amount of healing/enhance skill to go with it, so they can at least function as a decent healer, especially while leveling up. It's silly to be stuck with cure 1 until level 22 for example.

A SMALL spellbook of summoning spells to let smn act quickly and effectively would be nice. cure-equivalents to I/II/III as summoner spells would be nice.

SMN is more akin to SCH than to anything in that it can heal, DD and buff.

You need to buff everything so that the SMN itself can choose which role they want to fulfill. The thing is, they need GEAR that'll affect the way they fulfill these roles. Gear that'll have avatar accuracy and physical damage stats, avatar magical accuracy and damage effect. Maybe avatar healing ability even. Make stats that affect avatar/elemental spirit performance besides avatar perpetuation, blood pact delay reduction, and MP. Maybe you want to use your avatar to do damage, you slap on some avatar STR gear or some such, and you pull out Ifrit or Garuda, and pound some faces in. Maybe you'll want to play backline healer or put out buffs.

This was in response to me saying that SMN has no apparent core-role. According to this guy SMN's core-role is to do melee DD, magical DD, heal, and support.

SMN can heal with their sub, they get a few avatars to heal, and give buffs, and some of their blood pacts do great damage, but they're limited by timers and poor avatar AI and some other things holding them back as well (limited gear selection, for example). But they are clearly a hybrid job in a sense, they CAN heal, they CAN buff, they CAN do damage.

"I want my pony to do damage"
"I want my pony to do buffs"
"I want my pony to do healing"

Fixed for you. And stop putting words in everyone mouths. It's tacky. Or are you calling Sch, and blu broken?

By excluding healing you've left out one aspect of SMN these people believe is its core-role. I'll agree that SMN on its own is a very limited healer. But as I've said, some people can't let stuff go.

I see what's wrong now. SMNs been so shitty at everything that at some point people just made up core-roles for it and convinced themselves that SMN excels at said role when it does not.

Look, it's obvious you don't play SMN. Everything you've said has been contrary to what every other SMN has been talking about. If you can't converse on the same level, you are not helping the conversation.

So you're saying I'm wrong because a few SMNs don't agree that their idea of improvement (Perp Costs, BP, or Auto-Refresh) will not fix SMN. I think that's BS considering the fact that half the time the broken class doesn't even know how to fix itself. Look at DRG, most ideas of updates were some lame Stun Jump. None of these were implemented and DRG is close to fixed (Maybe when that Drakesbane update comes in). In fact, lets say DRG did get Stun jump on the 5min timer everyone wanted. Would it really make a difference? Most likely not considering how effective BLU is against non HNMs (In which case a magic form of stun is used to ensure it lands). On the other hand, no one mentioned Angon. Some suggested that DRGs get a javelin as ranged weapon, but not to decrease the enemy's DEF. If it was mentioned, it was one of the few played down suggestions that were ignored by the majority of the community. RDM's Gravity and Refresh? Same deal. In neither one of these cases did the community come up with the suggestion that fixed said class.

[Thiefami]

I honestly feel perp cost is fine the way it is, the gear available truly drops it down to a significant cost where you can function just fine. I think it is worth looking into the way each avatar functions. Maybe titan should not take physical damage as easy as the other avatars, maybe shiva should have more magic spells and a higher magic attack, and garuda should be quicker, but weaker and attack a lot. Just ideas, but I think that would go along way making summoner more unique and along with it each avatar serving another purpose.

[Kenji]

Everyone's ideas on how to fix SMN are crap, because I feel everyone else's ideas on every other job is crap. Ain't my logic grand? I don't play SMN, nor have any ideas of my own; I just want to come in here and tell people they they all suck and that nothing they say will ever amount to anything. Please, let me hang onto my idea that I am superior, despite the fact that I don't have a clue about the ins and outs of the job. To repeat: All your ideas are bad, and I have nothing productive to add.

Kay.

[Yugl]

Kay.

Unlike you I've shown ways to approach the problem and even give examples as to why this approach work. You just post because you're bitter about the fact everyone shat on your "morals" argument in the Salvage thread.

[blackmail]

The only thing I like about this discussion is knowing that smn adjustments are not in any of the posters hands. For the first time, I'm glad that SE is significantly less passionate about this game than the players.