Kuno's awesome SMN post

[Genosync]

At least they're not doing something retarded, like giving you the ability to summon two avatars at once, but making the MP cost of keeping them out be combined instead of minimized in some way, and then you still only get one BP rage timer.

I really can see SE doing something ridiculous like that, and then citing that it allows you to store more TP for your bloodpacts!

[Khamsin]

Is the Odin fight in Einherjar against "Odin" or "Odin Prime"? Likewise, is the Alexander fight against "Alexander" or "Alexander Prime"? I forget.

[Cloudius]

Is the Odin fight in Einherjar against "Odin" or "Odin Prime"? Likewise, is the Alexander fight against "Alexander" or "Alexander Prime"? I forget.

Both not Prime, even though there is an Odin Prime in the .DATs iirc.

Odin size wise could work, since he's not so big off his horse. But Alex..
http://pds.exblog.jp/pds/1/200709/18...79_2137399.jpg

[Genosync]

It wouldn't surprise me if the 'Odin Prime' in the dat's the model that's actually used for once of the cutscenes that has Odin in it for the ToAU missions.

(and yes, sometimes NPCs in cutscenes do actually have entries in the dats, check Ru'Ann Gardens if you don't believe me, you'll quickly find a few)

[Tomino]

yes, Odin Prime appears in one of the CS talking to Luzaf.
btw one of the major pros in having Odin as avatar isn't related to SMN imho : i think we still miss the chance to battle such a cool NM in a hard standard BCNM fight with 6 people.
Players already got their chance at Alexander (uncap, they redid Diabolos because the original story battle was heavily capped) and the Einherjar battle really is a whole different story.

[KoD]

If SE thinks that an avatar that doesn't always obey you is what SMN needs, then what little faith I still had is gone.

TBH thats probley a Good Idea, to Create a SMN like this it would also beable to use summoner skill to a better use higher SMN skill = how well they will Obey ? or use of better attacks very intresting and unquie!!

[spooky]

I dunno why people are getting so excited by the idea of a summon(s) that act on their own. There are 8 in the game already, and we all know just how shit they are.

[Kaylia]

I dunno why people are getting so excited by the idea of a summon(s) that act on their own. There are 8 in the game already, and we all know just how shit they are.

Problem with elemental is the rate at which they cast spell (and resist, but that's another topic). If they were slightly faster, they wouldn't be bad.

[Kenji]

Problem with elemental is the rate at which they cast spell (and resist, but that's another topic). If they were slightly faster, they wouldn't be bad.

You can actually get that cast time down so they fire off spells fairly quick. The problem is perp cost, long cast times of good spells, low damage of good spells, and the annoyance of watching fire spirit cast burn over and over.

[Kairos]

You can actually get that cast time down so they fire off spells fairly quick. The problem is perp cost, long cast times of good spells, low damage of good spells, and the annoyance of watching fire spirit cast burn over and over.

Even the perpetuation cost isn't the problem. The actual problem is the selection of spells for some players who get elemental enfeebles repeatedly. Not for anything specific, but a rage/ward mode for spirits to cast offensive and enfeebling spells without one interfering when you don't want it would help them a lot. That and about 10 magic acc is all that's really ruining spirit's spells.

You can get casting time to around 18 seconds for all in offensive mode (with weather/day bonus), and as low as 8 seconds per cast with light spirit in defensive/idle mode. There are merits for perpetuation of spirits so that their cost should not even be an issue with moderate gear. My current setup allows me a near free spirit of any element matching the weather after sanction/sigil refresh kicks in (or utilizing conjurer's ring). With a decent smn magic skill macro swap, elemental siphon will allow you to endlessly perpetuate an elemental while gaining mp back as long as it doesn't cost more than 3mp/tick. Because this is possible even without nirvana, I don't think mp cost is an issue.

[Gwynplaine]

I know that SMN threads are garbage magnets, and maybe this will be no different but had a rough idea a while ago. One personal caveat here, I think SMN is all right the way it is, or at worst could use improvement but it's not junk by any means. Then again I'm not a "career" SMN.

Anyhow, the way I see it SMN's problems are mainly two things. Summoning magic takes far too long to execute to be dynamic and useful in fast-paced situations, and their subjob provides much of their utility in normal circumstances. Incidentally the second is partly because of the first.

On the other hand SMN has access to quick elementals but they are useless except as disposable ether tanks. So the idea is to augment the elemental spirits with a new SMN ability, something like "Astral Cast" that opens a menu similar to choose a spell to cast. Essentially this brings the AoE available to avatars, down to single target applications for spirits. The corresponding spirit of the spells element is summoned, casts the spell, and is automatically despawned. The goal to be to allow for useful single target spells, cast quicker than the avatar AoE's enmity-free. For example, you select astral cast: blink, you would summon a wind spirit, it casts blink only the target you choose then despawns.

This could have the effect of allowing for more diverse subjob use, retains SMN's concept as enmity-free actions through pets, and perhaps makes it more attractive as a sub as well. It's also simple and doesn't require any special overhaul. Why risk drawing hate over long fights when you could have your light elemental cure IV someone for you. As long as you can spare a little side MP for the perp cost, but Siphon could help mitigate it as well.

Spells like Stoneskin, Blink, Cure 1-4, Reraise (above 37), Ice Spikes, Sneak, Invisible, and perhaps even Haste (or at least it's nice to think so in a pretend thread). Thats a rough idea but with work I think it's a decent idea that helps SMN across all levels. Imagine buffing your tank in the dunes with single target blink for example before utsusemi and AA are available.

[Silenka]

Here let me post something useful on the topic of spirits.

If one does pull its head out of its proverbial ass long enough to cast an ancient magic, if you re-assault it on the mob right away, not only will it keep casting, but it will attack during casting and it will reset the timer so the next spell goes off much faster.