Kuno's awesome SMN post

[Shadowrunner]

I'll glady accept some of these changes.. the day they make summoned avatar hate linked to the summoner.

Gladly, and my SMN is in the upper 50's (59?).

I mean, if we're thinking logically here. If i'm sitting there and I see a giant winged bird pop out of nowhere and overwhelm me with 1200 points of damage when most guys are hitting for tops 600-700 (save some special jobs), I'd sure as hell know who was the chump that brought that bastard on me, and I'd eat his face.

With knives.

Of justice.

Avatar Hate should automatically re-link to the host. Every time I see a summoner say that their job sucks, I watch my buddy bust out a 1800 Predator's claw on some unsuspecting Tonberry, then watch a cure take hate off him when he unsummons it.

[Rocl]

I feel that it is my duty to criticize the obvious incongruities presented by Square Enix and its legates. What follows is a series of remarks addressed to the readers of this letter and to Square Enix itself. Square Enix's agendas are steeped in unctuous deconstructionism. If you doubt this, just ask around. Accordingly, when I say that Square Enix's proposed social programs are lubricious, I mean it. I don't mean that they remind me of something lubricious or that they have one or two lubricious characteristics. I mean that they are lubricious. In fact, the most lubricious thing about them is the way that they prevent people from seeing that Square Enix talks a lot about stoicism and how wonderful it is. However, it's never actually defined what it means. How can it argue for something it's never defined? The best answer comes from Square Enix itself. That is, if you pay attention to its insufferable undertakings you'll indisputably notice that once people obtain the critical skills that enable them to think and reflect and speculate independently, they'll realize that Square Enix would rather talk about making changes than actually make them. And here, I profess, lies a clue to the intellectual vacuum so gapingly apparent in Square Enix's expedients.

I know very few benighted, pharisaical cozeners personally but I know them well enough to surmise that Square Enix says that it is a perpetual victim of injustice. Wow! Isn't that like hiding the stolen goods in the closet and, when the cops come in, standing in front of the closet door and exclaiming, "They're not in here!"? The long and short of it is that Square Enix's idiotic claim that at birth every living being is assigned a celestial serial number or frequency power spectrum is just that, an idiotic claim. My next point will be so cogent that even Square Enix will be able to understand it. Specifically, it doesn't do us much good to become angry and wave our arms and shout about the evils of Square Enix's criticisms in general terms. If we want other people to agree with us and join forces with us, then we must celebrate knowledge and truth for the sake of knowledge and truth.

Square Enix's fervent belief in corporatism allows it to perform all sorts of outrages, misdemeanors, felonies, and atrocities and feel perfectly justified in performing them. I've already explained why but let me add that Square Enix has for a long time been arguing that university professors must conform their theses and conclusions to its chthonic prejudices if they want to publish papers and advance their careers. Had it instead been arguing that the notion that when someone bends knee to its non-negotiable demands, Square Enix pushes and pushes for more is pervasive, I might cede Square Enix its point. As it stands, the leap of faith required to bridge the logical gap in its arguments is simply too terrifying for me to contemplate. What I do often contemplate, however, is how wherever you look, you'll see Square Enix enforcing intolerance in the name of tolerance. You'll see it suppressing freedom in the name of freedom. And you'll see it crushing diversity of opinion in the name of diversity. In conclusion, let me just say that the union of theory and practice, in Square Enix's hands, becomes a union of pomposity and Stalinism.

[Marius]

^ what he said

[Jordache]

@ Rocl: That was the smartest thing I have ever heard any one say about anything ever.

[Nirokun!]

You cant make changes to smn without me kuno :3

No, dont change summon costs. Initial small-mp cost to summon with perpetuation cost is enough to just make it melee.

Reduce perpetuation cost of spirits drastically (and perhaps adjust that merit category) so that it would be worthwhile to "idle" in a PT (between avatars) with a spirit out.

I like the idea of autorefresh II and III at 50 and 75 (or even 60 and 70)

They said they'd expand ward ranges. If they decreased the cost (and/or increased the potency) it'd make smn look desirable to a PT and not some red-headed stepchild. Garuda hastega 25%, wide range AoE with a small cost? Why hello summoner, hello. Maybe force some of the more potent wards available after achieving different tiers of summoning skill (like sexy haste or lovely stoneskin.) And tweak the duration, really.

I dont think the spirits' AI should be tweaked really. They're already fairly complex, but I know that summoners who use spirits would like to have some influence over how they behave (and not force their HP to the red to get light spirit to cure.) So introduce quested items (or something) that have a rage/ward-type influence over the spirit. You cant pick which spells they cast, but you can force them to choose from a category (no shock for you, thunder spirit.) If its not an item, maybe toggle it by engaging/disengaging for rage/ward. That would be pretty neat.

As for an avatar "aura" that buffs the PT.... idk. If you increased the potency of the wards above, giving strong hastes and a potent, long-lasting warcry, i question if you need the "aura" buff. Maybe something small, like a small-radius weather buff (*'-') but thats dreaming (if you didnt think i was already dreaming XD)

Healing avatars with their element would be fun 0 dmg from what they resist, also fun

Adjusting the range at which the avatars attack from, or increasing the Rage BP range would be lovely.

I like the idea of a strategem-like system of "charges" for BPs. That would be sexy (and -BP would just make it more sexy---BP on timer, and when you rest, you build up 4 charges to fire back to back (to back to back), then continue on timer til mp is out, then rest... :DDD)

Buffs extending to pets would be sick ; ; dice: war-beast, song: minuet-minuet, (then more buffers) on my 4 charge avatar?? Disgusting. I love it <3

A SMALL spellbook of summoning spells to let smn act quickly and effectively would be nice. cure-equivalents to I/II/III as summoner spells would be nice. It would limit your ability to main heal, but you do it if you had a strong light spirit (kind of how a pup/whm and whm-head puppet can heal ---- WITHOUT THE POISONA MISHAPS!)

I dont think avatar pathing can be fixed, all NPC's function like that. You'd never escape aggro ever

As for my personal brand of broken-ass changes:

Astral Flow:
-Avatar Perpetuation Cost reduced to 0
-Astral Flow Blood Pacts become available
-Elemental Spirits cast more frequently and more violently
*Blood Pact "Ward" and "Rage" timers unlocked (**Blood Pact usage still limited by mp**)

Blood Pact abilities "Ward" and "Rage":
-Ability timer reduced from 1:00 to 0:30

Summoning Magic Skill:
-Summoning Magic Skill cap raised to 276

Prime Avatar Blood Pacts previously available my merits:
-Prime Avatar Blood Pacts implemented to standard level-up abilities at 75 for their respected avatars

New Merit Categories Implemented:
-Avatar: Critical Hit rate (2% each merit, up to 10% for 5 upgrades)
-Avatar: Double-Attack rate (3% each merit, up to 15% for 5 upgrades)
-Avatar: Additional Effect (+5 enspell effect each merit, up to +25 for 5 upgrades)
-Elemental Siphon Recast (0:30 reduction for each merit, up to 2:30 reduction for 5 upgrades)

You know you love it.

[kayn]

I'm going to post without reading the thread. I usually try to avoid this because it usually leads to posts that are completely irrelevant. But after having read max's post after the OP, I decided that if his post is that dumb then this thread would probably be full of morons bitching. I like the OPs post. I think those are great ideas. I hope SE really can deliver on the much needed improvements to smn. I'd also like to use this post to reiterate that max is an idiot.

[LD]

You stole my word-a-day calendar.

Well said.


....Deja Vu...

[Rehont]

The only thing they need to change about smn is the fact if I call for a BP and the mob walks 2 feet away ... it fizzles. We've all been the victim of a Astral Flow from the Orcs in Dynamis-Sandoria ... and their astral flow hits you from 2 miles away. Hell even Fenrir prime's Howling Moon can hit you just about anywhere in the main room of the full moon fountain. Fix the range issues and I as a smn would be happy

[Gallus]

Or, they could simply make the SMN's INT translate directly to Attack for the Avatar and MND translate directly to Accuracy for the Avatar.

[Ohemgee]

Or, they could simply make the SMN's INT translate directly to Attack for the Avatar and MND translate directly to Accuracy for the Avatar.

Then elvaan's would bitch about everything

[Nirokun!]

Their avatars would be accurate though!

[Rocl]

Their avatars would be accurate though!

Tarutarus, however, not so much.

[Silenka]

I am a SMN main. Lot of good that does me when SMN is useless for everything I do, though.

It's impractical in Salvage (need to unlock too many things to even approach useful)
It's impractical in Nyzul
It's impractical in Dynamis (who has main hate on that mob? was it me? is that why it's awake and raping the blms? oops)

If you have any other job, really, SMN is going to be on the bottom of the list for any event, simply because of SMN's previously-listed weaknesses (read: BROKEN THINGS).

Pathing is terrible, my avatar takes between 5 to 20 seconds just to reach me every time I summon it. This may be a harder fix than we realize though, if it was easy to make a mob come straight toward you they would probably all do it already. Regardless, it's a huge blow to SMN as a job, and one that doesn't really affect the other pet jobs.

The limited range on BPs has been discussed to death, but it's much more a problem on rage pacts than ward pacts. With how many mobs require a kite strategy, SMN as DD becomes close to useless.


The fact of the matter is, each pet job in the game currently gives the master significant melee abilities. PUP can't punch things as hard as a MNK, and BST can't axe things as well as a WAR, but the melee ability is still there. SMN has virtually no melee ability, everything about the job comes from the pet (and the subjob). The fact that there is no food and no really good gear to increase specifics of avatar attack rating is complete BS. Merits only help so much, and only for avatar accuracy.

I do not think that SMNs should be able to melee, as they are supposed to serve as nothing but the conduit for the supremely powerful beings they summon. The problem inherent in the summoner job is that at present avatars are not even close to supremely powerful - they're neither consistent nor strong, and almost nothing they do is special or unique. Any 'fix' that comes with summoner is going to have to bring it closer to the root of what it was supposed to be in the first place, or it risks becoming another job entirely.

[LD]

Then eleven's would bitch about everything

I need to get my eyes checked.

[Kipling]

Tarutarus, however, not so much.

You have made me sad.

[Ashira]

Yes, indeed, one wonders how Karugo Matoto Popoto Barihaha whatever the fuck his name is actually died using summoning magicks. Blew out most of Windurst too. Now I'm lucky if Fenrir at 75 can one-shot a Tiny Mandragora.

[BRP]

Tsk tsk tsk, you summoners and your lack of lore.

The Fenrir at Windurst was the real deal. This wasn't a good thing in the end though.

The Fenrir you guys summon is the best copy you guys can muster. So basically you guys suck that's why.

[Casey_]

Pathing is terrible, my avatar takes between 5 to 20 seconds just to reach me every time I summon it. This may be a harder fix than we realize though, if it was easy to make a mob come straight toward you they would probably all do it already. Regardless, it's a huge

After programming with a pathing system in the unreal engine which seems similar, paths are defined once and they can be anywhere, and sometimes do really strange stuff : see pathing bugs that cause mobs to loop around objects stupidly. It is pathetically easy to code something to move in a straight line given it has line of sight to you and there are no obstructions, but I don't think you'd want that to happen, then SE could easily fix mobs to do that as well, and it may ruin a lot of low man things, or kiting in general without movement+

[Ayr]

The best TP burn party Mage I ever had was a Smn. Kept Fenrir buffs and Hastega up all times, and had plenty of MP leftover to heal everyone. Combined with the Brd it was awesome; chaining colibri getting sweet exps etc.

Smn's perfectly fine how it is. They should look forward to new Avatars (eventually). If you "really" wanna complain about not being allowed to come as your favourite job to every event, then go join MonstersInc or LordoftheBeast. Or better yet dont level jobs like Rdm or Blm.

[Nirokun!]

Tarutarus, however, not so much.

You know nothing of my summoning magic skill rocl. If int gave me atk, i'll sing you a song on vent. What song, I dont know, but it wont be as good, nor as crazy as sendoh's Seriously though, my garuda would tear the heavens asunder. She's a badass lady, rocl.