Post pictures of your gear V: Throw moar RNGs at it

[Eanae]

I much prefer the extra shield skill over a random number proc.

[drwaffles]

Um, blocking an attack with your shield is a random number proc in itself anyway...

[Eanae]

Um, blocking an attack with your shield is a random number proc in itself anyway...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but without using Koenig Head or Gallant feet +1 in my basic Utsu macro, isn't Boxer's required to push me over the final shield skill tier? I only macro blinkable pieces when I know for a fact I am going to be hit. Shield blocking may be random, but less random then shadow mantle procs.

[avelle]

I much prefer the extra shield skill over a random number proc.

But the 0's popping up make me feel all warm and fuzzy.

edit: Also, can you point me to information on shield skill tiers? I hadn't actually heard of such a thing. All I ever heard was aim for 300ish etc.

[Indalecia]

But the 0's popping up make me feel all warm and fuzzy.

edit: Also, can you point me to information on shield skill tiers? I hadn't actually heard of such a thing. All I ever heard was aim for 300ish etc.

What the hell are you shield blocking in salvage?

*Ziiiing*

[Neosutra]

So much ignorance in this thread.

1. Shadow mantle is not 3% proc rate, it is measured to be just over 9% (Having sat and let myself get hit for about 3 hours on various sets of lvl ranged mobs). But no, I havent been able to test if this value decreases on mobs of higher dificulty.

2. There are no "shield skill tiers". This just comes from naive people that stack a shit ton of skill and suddenly see they are blocking more and go "wow I must have broken some tier". There have been -no- tests to back up any theory that their is a tiered increase in accuracy, enfeebling, block rate, evasion, anything. There is a specific correlation effect that increases as your skill increases and takes into account your shield skill and the mobs lvl (among other things I havent quantified). Where do you people even get this "tiers" crap from?

3. Every time you actually block with your shield, it isnt solely because of your boxers mantle, so Eanae you have NO foundation for saying the boxers mantle is less random than shadow mantle.

If per say the boxers mantle were to provide you with 3-4% shield block rate increase, that is still a random chance that 3-4 out 100 hits may be blocked added to your total block rate. You cant lump in the benefits of boxers mantle with your already base block rate and state they are connected. The shield block % increase is just as random as the shadow mantle proc, it just makes people like you feel better because you feel their is a static improvement (even though it is still a low % increase that is random as fuck).

Even if shadow mantle does have slightly lower proc on HNMs (which Ive seen no tests to comfirm this), you would still need almost double the proc rate increase from boxers to match the damage reduction of shadow.

Use some common sense, this isnt rocket surgery.

[Takedown3]

So much ignorance in this thread.

1. Shadow mantle is not 3% proc rate, it is measured to be just over 9% (Having sat and let myself get hit for about 3 hours on various sets of lvl ranged mobs). But no, I havent been able to test if this value decreases on mobs of higher dificulty.

2. There are no "shield skill tiers".

3. Every time you actually block with your shield, it isnt solely because of your boxers mantle, so Eanae you have NO foundation for saying the boxers mantle is less random than shadow mantle.

If per say the boxers mantle were to provide you with 3-4% shield block rate increase, that is still a random chance that 3-4 out 100 hits may be blocked added to your total block rate. You cant lump in the benefits of boxers mantle with your already base block rate and state they are connected. The shield block % increase is just as random as the shadow mantle proc, it just makes people like you feel better because you feel their is a static improvement (even though it is still a low % increase that is random as fuck).

Even if shadow mantle does have slightly lower proc on HNMs (which Ive seen no tests to comfirm this), you would still need almost double the proc rate increase from boxers to match the damage reduction of shadow.

Use some common sense, this isnt rocket surgery.

pretty sure you just owned the shit outta eanae

[Kipling]

What the hell are you shield blocking in salvage?

*Ziiiing*

Snaps!

[sleekmotorwurkz]

So much ignorance in this thread.

1. Shadow mantle is not 3% proc rate, it is measured to be just over 9% (Having sat and let myself get hit for about 3 hours on various sets of lvl ranged mobs). But no, I havent been able to test if this value decreases on mobs of higher dificulty.

2. There are no "shield skill tiers". This just comes from naive people that stack a shit ton of skill and suddenly see they are blocking more and go "wow I must have broken some tier". There have been -no- tests to back up any theory that their is a tiered increase in accuracy, enfeebling, block rate, evasion, anything. There is a specific correlation effect that increases as your skill increases and takes into account your shield skill and the mobs lvl (among other things I havent quantified). Where do you people even get this "tiers" crap from?

3. Every time you actually block with your shield, it isnt solely because of your boxers mantle, so Eanae you have NO foundation for saying the boxers mantle is less random than shadow mantle.

If per say the boxers mantle were to provide you with 3-4% shield block rate increase, that is still a random chance that 3-4 out 100 hits may be blocked added to your total block rate. You cant lump in the benefits of boxers mantle with your already base block rate and state they are connected. The shield block % increase is just as random as the shadow mantle proc, it just makes people like you feel better because you feel their is a static improvement (even though it is still a low % increase that is random as fuck).

Even if shadow mantle does have slightly lower proc on HNMs (which Ive seen no tests to comfirm this), you would still need almost double the proc rate increase from boxers to match the damage reduction of shadow.

Use some common sense, this isnt rocket surgery.

I agree with everything you just said.... however, if boxers mantle lets you block even 1/100 more times then shadow procs, thats one extra time you get shadows up through a hit. The damage mitigation of a shield block is obviously less then mantle, but the damage mitigation you get due to getting shadows up and not getting hit a 2nd/3rd has to be considered also.

[Eanae]

The problem with everything you've said is what you're saying is all based on assumption as well. Possibly you could provide a link to these inconclusive tests? I'm going to say you're wrong, because obviously there is a high chance I was misled. I just want to play the devil's advocate in this case.

[FailureMidgard]

So much ignorance in this thread.

1. Shadow mantle is not 3% proc rate, it is measured to be just over 9% (Having sat and let myself get hit for about 3 hours on various sets of lvl ranged mobs). But no, I havent been able to test if this value decreases on mobs of higher dificulty.

2. There are no "shield skill tiers". This just comes from naive people that stack a shit ton of skill and suddenly see they are blocking more and go "wow I must have broken some tier". There have been -no- tests to back up any theory that their is a tiered increase in accuracy, enfeebling, block rate, evasion, anything. There is a specific correlation effect that increases as your skill increases and takes into account your shield skill and the mobs lvl (among other things I havent quantified). Where do you people even get this "tiers" crap from?

3. Every time you actually block with your shield, it isnt solely because of your boxers mantle, so Eanae you have NO foundation for saying the boxers mantle is less random than shadow mantle.

If per say the boxers mantle were to provide you with 3-4% shield block rate increase, that is still a random chance that 3-4 out 100 hits may be blocked added to your total block rate. You cant lump in the benefits of boxers mantle with your already base block rate and state they are connected. The shield block % increase is just as random as the shadow mantle proc, it just makes people like you feel better because you feel their is a static improvement (even though it is still a low % increase that is random as fuck).

Even if shadow mantle does have slightly lower proc on HNMs (which Ive seen no tests to comfirm this), you would still need almost double the proc rate increase from boxers to match the damage reduction of shadow.

Use some common sense, this isnt rocket surgery.

I don't play a Paladin, but I'm confused, why are you completely ignoring Parrying and Evasion skill? I realize neither is something you want to stack on a Paladin, but at the same time both of them do have an effect on lowering the damage you take. Especially since both parry and evasion checks are done before a shadow is even lost (and if Paladin evasion is so low the mob is hit capped normally, it will still at least come into play while the mob is Flashed, which is still something when you actually think about the scale we're looking at).

Also, afaik, Shadow Mantle can still proc off a Shield Blocked attack. Whatever proc rate you are seeing, how many of those attacks are already being shield blocked? Especially since the addition of Reprisal to the game. Is this calculated into your #s? Or are you assuming that the Shadow Mantle gets credit for all the dmg reduction on a proc on a blocked attack? It is also being redundant for spell interruption, in this situation.

What the hell are you shield blocking in salvage?

*Ziiiing*

One of those NMs your LS failed to kill with 13 people in Zhayolm maybe!

[Neosutra]

Stacking parry and evasion on pld has little effect due to how low pld skill is in those areas, but tbh I couldn't quantify the benefits of 10 evasion and parry on anything tough, though I doubt it is even above the variance of noise in any given situation. As for your statement about redundancy in shadow mantle proc on a shield block, the redundency only really matters for interupt, with the shadow mantle still pulling ahead in both interupt and DoT reduction.

[drwaffles]

I agree with everything you just said.... however, if boxers mantle lets you block even 1/100 more times then shadow procs, thats one extra time you get shadows up through a hit. The damage mitigation of a shield block is obviously less then mantle, but the damage mitigation you get due to getting shadows up and not getting hit a 2nd/3rd has to be considered also.

... holy hell. If you're hit for 0 you will not be interrupted, can we stop with the failure now please?

[FailureMidgard]

Stacking parry and evasion on pld has little effect due to how low pld skill is in those areas, but tbh I couldn't quantify the benefits of 10 evasion and parry on anything tough, though I doubt it is even above the variance of noise in any given situation. As for your statement about redundancy in shadow mantle proc on a shield block, the redundency only really matters for interupt, with the shadow mantle still pulling ahead in both interupt and DoT reduction.

I'm not saying to stack it, at all. The base evasion formula is linear, however. Unless the mob is past accuracy cap, adding 10 evasion at 250 skill is the same as 200 skill is the same as 300 skill. The only reason it is good to stack it is:

I believe 10 evasion skill = 5% miss rate.

If the mob has a 90% miss rate normally, lowering that to 85% is 5/90 = 5.5% reduction in hits taken.

If the mob has a 20% miss rate normally, lowering that to 15% is 5/20 = 25% reduction in hits taken.

In the end though, both of those make the mob miss an additional 5 out of every 100 swings made. The only time the evasion is bad is if the mob has a "105%" hit rate or whatever, which is being capped to 95%...the 100% would still be capped to 95%.

I could be wrong on this, if evasion for players works differently than for mobs, but from my understandings, that is not the case.

And I still think you are merely saying "evasion is bad, I'm a paladin" based on the general accepted truth, without looking at the math at all. The fact is, it still does get checked before losing a shadow, whereas both shadow mantle and shield block -only- check if your shadows fall. Parry is similar.

And I don't know why you say the redundancy only matters in spell interruption. If a mob hits you, you block it, and the mantle procs, the mantle only prevented the amount of damage you would have taken post-block, it didn't save you the entire hit's worth of damage. Like you said with the Boxer's, a vast majority of the blocks you see are due to the rest of your blockrate, likewise with Shadow Mantle though, if it procs on a block, it is saving less damage than if it procs on a full hit. If you are actually blocking 50% of the swings that hit you (random # I'm tossing up, I really have no clue what your blockrate is), then 50% of your shadow mantle procs should only be counted as mitigating the blocked damage value.

If anyone has actual #s for Base Block rate, % of damage mitigated by a block, % of hits that will hit shadows, and an estimate at shadow mantle proc rate, then math is probably more useful than arguing for the sake of arguing.

[Valisk]

My Shadow Mantle is town gear until it's proven that Shadow Mantle > Boxer's Mantle.

[SephYuyX]

Pimp my ri.. WAR. TP, WS.
http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/9079/twarhs8.jpg

TP
/input /equip Main "Woodville's Axe";
/input /equip Sub "Maneater";
/input /equip Ammo "Bomb Core";
input /equip Head "Walahra Turban";
input /equip Neck "Chivalrous Chain";
input /equip L.Ring "Woodsman Ring";
input /equip Ear1 "Assault Earring";
input /equip R.Ring "Woodsman Ring";
input /equip Ear2 "Coral Earring";
input /equip Body "Hauberk";
input /equip Hands "Dusk Gloves";
input /equip Back "Amemet Mantle +1";
input /equip Waist "Potent Belt";
input /equip Legs "Byakko's Haidate";
input /equip Feet "Aurum Sabatons";

WS
input /equip L.Ring "Ruby Ring";
input /equip Head "Sipahi Turban";
input /equip Body "Kirin's Osode"
input /equip Hands "Hecatomb Mittens";
input /equip waist "Warwolf Belt"
input /equip R.Ring "Ruby Ring";
input /equip Feet "Hecatomb Leggings";

Obviously wtf w/ alot of it, but I never played WAR seriously to care, but since im getting better and better r/e items, I figure I should finally put some real effort into it.

So suggestions? Dont be too harsh, and dont recommend anything too crazy.

[Wolfknight]

Assuming you have sea: Gorget for ws, Brutal for Fulltime. Non-Sea: Pole Grip is much better than mythril +1.

[Ollieyk]

WS Set needs moar ACC. Switch hat for O hat. Rings could be changed to Snipers for RR. Pole Strap. Hauberk full time.

They are the changes i would make anyway - Oh, and a swift belt.

[Isiolia]

Use Hauberk for WS unless SC, might consider other slots where you're pulling ACC out too. 2h has a lot of ACC, but you're not gonna be automagically capped everywhere. In that vein, could also consider something like a Fowling Earring to complement the Assault, rather than Coral, at least until you can get a Brutal Earring.

Gorget, Swift Belt, etc would be good improvements as well that typically aren't that hard to get.

[Thorny]

If the mob has a 90% miss rate normally, lowering that to 85% is 5/90 = 5.5% reduction in hits taken.

If the mob has a 20% miss rate normally, lowering that to 15% is 5/20 = 25% reduction in hits taken.

you put miss rate instead of hit rate, aside from that I've parsed my nin to have 5% evasion rate on things as weak as sky gods and jailers in standard tanking setup(arhats+1x2, enm/haste wherever possible, terra's, no evasion).. which is still 277 evasion skill. PLD has similar AGI and would be hard pressed to even come close to that skill if they wore a whole evasion build, you're not getting past lower cap on eva besides when flash is up on anything.. and you usually cast flash when shadows are up

it still does get checked before losing a shadow,

except you're now advocating idling in boxer's mantle indirectly, instead of just macroing it into ichi ... with the addition of atonement, cuchulain's is a better idle back and if it's a mob you aren't meleeing then you're still likely idling in an enmity back instead of boxers @.@