RDM|WHM Melee "Tweaks" to come...

[Sady]

What I'd like to see for tier 2 en- spells, which is the most likely addition for RDM, is enstatus effects similar to the elementals in Temenos. An added effect similar to elemental dots would also be cool as mentioned above.

I'd kind of hope they will add front/backline "stances" (think hasso/seigan) where you can trade off macc/mab/mdb and acc/atk/def but I dont think this is very likely.

I believe RDM was intended to be a WHM/BLM/WAR hybrid. We know it excels at the first, it's decent at the second, but rather abismal at the third due to B skill 1handers. I'm not talking a massive boost is required, but a small boost would be appreciated.

I was chatting with my LS's resident meleeWHM and his idea was to add an ability/trait that trades TP to buff spells. For example, you could use 10% tp to get +5% cure pot on your next spell, or similarly boost macc/potentcy on other "niche" spells for these jobs. This would offset, although only slightly, the lack of elemental staves. This would also synergy pretty nicely with mythics I think.

The misunderstanging a lot of people have is that they seem to think some RDMs and WHMs want to melee EVERYTHING and wtf pwn like a ridillWAR while doing it. Rather the opposite, we want to (situation permitting) support the party not only through cures/buffs/debuffs but also some light damage over time. A smart mage should be able to evaluate the situation and decide if meleeing is waranted (mainly, no particularly nasty AoEs or other TP moves) and in doing so they should further enhance the parties efficiency and not hinder it...

[Sekundes]

The main issue i have with trying to put rdm in the front lines is that if they are wearing a sword they loose potency(on those spells that get this) and accuracy from ele staves. I doubt any buff to melee skill enspells or any other front lines buff is going to make up for not wearing a staff. Unless of course they let you keep tp when you switch weapons... Hell you could make it a mage trait that you won't loose tp. But yea... good luck with getting them to do that.

[ninjafox]

Not gonna knock RDM melee, but personally the thought of using one single hand weapon to melee just bothers me. I don't think /nin would work for me either, cuz I just think I'm too used to standing back and casting. That's just my preference.

I believe that hands down RDM is the busiest job in the game and to have to try to worry bout acc and wsin'g while somebody else is gettin pounded on, just adds to the headache that we already have.

[Sady]

That's kind of my point. If you need the macc/potentcy bonus from staves to land spells effectively then the mob you're fighting is probably too strong to seriously consider meleeing in the first place. Or if you're too busy and stressed from micromanaging and multi-tasking then adding yet another burden probably isn't the best idea either.

But, if you can perform all of your duties satisfactorally with time to spare, doing some light damage (without excessive risk to yourself and your party) only improves efficiency.

[Wizrow]

Yep, that's right, they need to fix the number of casting of RDM and WHM, if they want them to melee. I think they'll do it though. From that interview, SE said they will add something for RDM and WHM that will produce some beneficial result from striking the enemy. My idea about it was it will be a spell or a JA that will make Refresh, haste and maybe regen obtainable by party members after striking the mob like the DCN's samba. I think SE know how to bring a job to the front, especially after releasing DCN's. Their abilities are available after striking the ennemy. That is what SE intend to do(interview), but then what will be those "beneficial result".

I'm pretty sure they'll do that on refresh and haste though, I think they want to reduce the number of casting of RDM and WHM, and I'm pretty sure we'll see some new beneficial status never seen before. Maybe "Regain" for exemple available after striking the ennemy? Indeed, people will ask rdm and whm to come and melee sometimes.

I could see them putting in regain for rdm/whm in exchange for TP rather than MP like DNC moves. Would keep the spell rare in most situations.

[SenseiFF11]

The main issue i have with trying to put rdm in the front lines is that if they are wearing a sword they loose potency(on those spells that get this) and accuracy from ele staves. I doubt any buff to melee skill enspells or any other front lines buff is going to make up for not wearing a staff. Unless of course they let you keep tp when you switch weapons... Hell you could make it a mage trait that you won't loose tp. But yea... good luck with getting them to do that.

There is death blossom, it's very helpfull. And if SE know their game and know that people complain about staff switching like you said, they should make enspells tier II reduce the resistance against that elemental, that will fix everything.

[Sekundes]

There is death blossom, it's very helpfull. And if SE know their game and know that people complain about staff switching like you said, they should make enspells tier II reduce the resistance against that elemental, that will fix everything.

Anything to make things resist less is great. But even with this enspell fix you'd only be able to reduce their resistance to one ele at a time. Given that none of us will ever be perfectly happy with any fix(I know i'll never run out of shit to bitch about) if the fix adds utility even while you just use it to weaken the mob and switch back to wearing a staff. I already see the effectiveness of using death blossom even when i'm going to switch right back to ele staves. So even an improvement that is minor is still an improvement and can increase one's situational power.

[SenseiFF11]

Anything to make things resist less is great. But even with this enspell fix you'd only be able to reduce their resistance to one ele at a time. Given that none of us will ever be perfectly happy with any fix(I know i'll never run out of shit to bitch about) if the fix adds utility even while you just use it to weaken the mob and switch back to wearing a staff. I already see the effectiveness of using death blossom even when i'm going to switch right back to ele staves. So even an improvement that is minor is still an improvement and can increase one's situational power.

Ya I'm agree enspells would reduce resistance to one elemental at a time, when staff is for all. But mmm in fact, on how many mobs in FFXI a RDM have to switch to staff in order to enfeeb the mob? Most of the RDM's out there exagerate with that "staff switching", when most of the times they don't even need that to stick that enfeeb, that give them the chance to focus more on the "effect" of the spells, example putting mind gears for para and slow. What I'm saying is if we have to check the mobs a RDM can enfeeb and the mobs he will need a staff to enfeeb, the mobs that demand a staff are very low "compared" to the one that don't need a staff. My point is, the "staff switching" issue, is not that a big issue. I believe this is not a strong argument for the "rdm melee". Mostly my Duelist's chapeau and 8/8 enfeeb is enough, can still add my warlock tabard +1 if resisted, and for sure some rdm when subbing NIN will use Nashira Legs for the haste, wich give some good enfeeb and magic accuracy. Merit spell, when meriting more than once on a spell it add some mag. acc aswell, that too help. Honestly RDM most of the times don't need to "switch staff" in order to just stick the spell. People just have the habit to do that, and it become exagerated.

Don't take me wrong, yes the staff switching is an issue, but rarely.

[Guppy]

Interesting point about Staff Switching -- it could give us a new reason to pick something other than elemental staves, if this buff is truly intended for in-party use, and is somehow TP-dependent, and is big enough to make a significant impact.

That's a lot of assumptions, but if true, many of the other casting-type weapons suddenly become more useful (Alkalurops, Antares, Seveneyes, Templar Mace, etc.)

[Ahlah]

The only debate you have provided is the ramblings of a dysfunctional retard whose only sole purpose in life is to listen to himself go on and on thinking he is hot shit. Newsflash you no-talent egotistical twat: no one is ever going to accommodate to your half-assed crackpot bullshit when an already superior strategy exists. But then again, I doubt you have even an inkling of experience beyond the Salvage gear you obtained by sucking off god knows who while playing with yourself. So do us all of a favor and go right back to FFXIclopedia so you can entertain them with your nit-witted banter. For someone who likes to constantly bitch that BG is becoming Allakhazam, you seem to have no problem dragging it down that way.

But then again, I don't expect you to understand this because your grasp of the English language is so atrocious, you made a pack of Mexicans go "Que?" So tell me, do you like Good Will Hunting?

Posting something like this will not hide your severe lack of knowledge and skill. Stick to the topic, you are the one shout at me first and because what I have posted is way beyond your standard. Now you try to attack my English?

BTW, I will like to hear more about your so called "superior Ouryu strategy".

[Izzy]

Posting something like this will not hide your severe lack of knowledge and skill. Stick to the topic, you are the one shout at me first and because what I have posted is way beyond your standard. Now you try to attack my English?

BTW, I will like to hear more about your so called "superior Ouryu strategy".

You start every post you have with a half-assed insult. Go read the last 10-15 of your posts in this thread and hopefully you reach the realization that you need a serious attitude check.

And his "superior" Ouryu strat is the same strat every LS uses nowadays if you want to slam through multiple Ouyru in a minimal amount of time. Suck less at endgame and get a fucking clue, dumbass.

[Yugl]

Somehow I'm starting to think that English really is his first language.

[The Blackrose]

Posting something like this will not hide your severe lack of knowledge and skill. Stick to the topic, you are the one shout at me first and because what I have posted is way beyond your standard. Now you try to attack my English?

BTW, I will like to hear more about your so called "superior Ouryu strategy".

If anything, it is your lack of knowledge and skill that has been highly visible and audible this entire thread. Not to mention every single thread that you have proceeded to threadshit in like a mindless donkey. And yes, boo hoo, I attacked your English. Your ability to comprehend and understand, as well as more or less stick to the scope of what a person posts is above and beyond an absolute failure.

For someone who says "Stick to the topic!", you have no problem starting problems first.

And as for the Ouryu strategy, it's the de-facto strategy that every linkshell worth their salt uses. You know, the same strategy as fighting Tiamat (hence the retarded cousin comment), except for sleeping him on the ground? But you obviously lack any sort of experience with this. Even your precious little wiki, which you acted like a parrot for this entire thread, has that strategy in detail.

You can't even be taken seriously anymore. Off with you. Excuse me, I have to go kill mobs you have no experience with.

[Ahlah]

You know I am starting to sympathise you and Izzy, you two obviously have no clue what I was talking about the whole time.

I am trying to point out an easy way to improve your so called "sleep nuke" strategy. There is no big change to the party setup. All you need to do is put sword in one of your RDM and get a RNG in your party (or simply bring a COR if you have one). Both RNG and RDM will be in charge of crowd control and build TP on Ziryu. When Ouryu is slept, wait for 1min and get RDM to start skillchain with Death Blossom, which should wake Ouryu up and cause her to get into the sky. The RNG will then close light (or COR to close dark) for your BLM to mb Aero (or Blizzard if using COR). Right before MB, BRD should try to land Threnody. RNG continues to deal damage on Ouryu until she lands again.

It's not even a difficult plan, by adding using this stragey you have just boost your BLM damage output by 30% and grant them magic accuracy bonus for at least 25sec. Plus you are taking advantage of your RDM who will otherwise be standing there doing nothing but casting sleep and refresh.

Please check the thread again, I don't fight back unless ppl insult me first.

You are playing a game designed by a group of ppl who can't even communicate in English. Guess that's why SE dev team don't even bother to explain complicated stuffs to ppl like you.

[Yugl]

You know I am starting to sympathise you and Izzy, you two obviously have no clue what I was talking about the whole time.

It's funny because I would never expect someone whose first language isn't English to insult a native English speaker about comprehension problems. If someone that is native to another language doesn't understand me, I would assume I'm not speaking the language properly, instead of assuming they don't speak the language properly.

I am trying to point out an easy way to improve your so called "sleep nuke" strategy. There is no big change to the party setup. All you need to do is put sword in one of your RDM and get a RNG in your party (or simply bring a COR if you have one). Both RNG and RDM will be in charge of crowd control and build TP on Ziryu. When Ouryu is slept, wait for 1min and get RDM to start skillchain with Death Blossom, which should wake Ouryu up and cause her to get into the sky. The RNG will then close light (or COR to close dark) for your BLM to mb Aero (or Blizzard if using COR). Right before MB, BRD should try to land Threnody. RNG continues to deal damage on Ouryu until she lands again.

Here's the problem. Without the addition of the skillchain, the plan is perfectly fine on its own. It has worked and it's repeatable. Adding in the SC with the RDM may increase damage and magic accuracy, but in order to do that, we have to wait for the RDM and COR/RNG to get TP and set up the skillchain. That extra step is a hassle. So my question is, why add an unnecessary hassle? If the plan works, the only additions necessary are ones that will speed up the process. Will this extra step increase the rate at which you beat the NM? I doubt it since the RDM would have to melee the worms and make sure he doesn't waste too much MP curing himself from hits. In addition to all of these requirements, the WSs have to land in order for the SC to occur (Not that big of an issue, but still one to consider). It's a moderate idea, but it requires so much extra work that it becomes a liability during the battle. Maybe opinions will change if you demonstrate this in action.

[Izzy]

You know I am starting to sympathise you and Izzy, you two obviously have no clue what I was talking about the whole time.

Called it! First sentence is a pitiful insult. Perhaps the first English you should have taught yourself was how to properly insult someone without looking like a 3rd grade virgin teacher's pet. Perhaps you can find some good learning juice under your kitchen sink right next to the Draino and Ajax!

I'm rather upset at you for shitting up a thread that I could have actually used to talk about something that I enjoy.

[The Blackrose]

You know I am starting to sympathise you and Izzy, you two obviously have no clue what I was talking about the whole time.

Mr. Montoya is going to have to start going postal on a bitch, isn't he?

Also, what you just listen was not an "improvement." So now I have to take time out of every roughly 2 minute sleep cycle to cater to a ranged DD and a RDM who feels the need to weaponskill? And that's if the weaponskills even connect. Do you even have the idea of the logistics behind both the organization required and all the stars that need to be aligned compared to the current method?

Maybe opinions will change if you demonstrate this in action.

Yugl, telling him to put up or shut up won't work. He still will yammer on his mouth and then say he "doesn't have a endgame linkshell." We went through this in a couple of other threads.

And I thought Ryunoire was an idiot.

[Ahlah]

Seriously, do I have to go through every single step for such a simple strategy?

RDM/NIN can go back to TPing on Ziryu or even elementals after Ouryu is awake. The whole idea is to allow your BLM to magic burst on first nuke and continue to spam spell while Death Blossum magic evasion down effect is still active. Your RDM and RNG should have enough TP way before the next nuke cycle begins.

Again, if your RDM/NIN can't handle a DC Ziryu or elementals he/she should really quit playing the job.

I don't even have to insult you and Izzy anymore Blackrose, at this stage it only means 2 things - you don't have the capacity to understand any endgame stuffs or you are just arguing to save face.

[Keria]

your magnificent idea is way too much effort, now ->

[The Blackrose]

your magnificent idea is way too much effort, now ->

Bingo.