RDM|WHM Melee "Tweaks" to come...

[Caliburn]

I vote SE convert Y's Scythe's hidden stats to cover all elements/staves, and just put BLM on it. Trust me, we DRKs aren't touching that piece of shit. Have the BLMs pop Fin Sushi, get an INT buff, and you can have at it. Promise, I won't complain, or give a shit about your fail Vorpal Scythe damage. Swear.

At least then you won't be casting AMII from 40-billion lightyears away, just in time to pull the mob to you as I'm weaponskilling. And you won't be running off constantly, making me unable to get it back off of you with another WS.

But really, good thinking, Square. Help WHMs and RDMs melee. Because that fixes shit. But then again, did we expect anything different? These are the same people who started suggesting WAR/RNG, and specifically made merits to allow WARs to do this. Same people who make it impossible to cure pets that die easily as shit anyways, and the same people who, for some reason, need to make their own ideas obsolete. So they introduce DNC, the frontline-WHM, and then they...tell WHMs to go into melee range?

O_o

[Not Kuno]

I'd just tell people to go level a melee job if they want to bludgeon and/or stab things if I was SE, personally. The meleeing mage is doable to a decent extent already. Why make it retard-proof with some update when there's better things to fix and improve?

Because square seems to want every job to melee and do WSes due to mythic. D:

[Valin]

I wish there were WHM exclusive spells that removed Terror and Amnesia >_>

mt

[Vajra]

I wish there were WHM exclusive spells that removed Terror and Amnesia >_>

mt

Wow, is that heat breath in your sig, a ballista shot o.0?

[Granthis]

I highlighted the gear your wife needs to change ASAP. This is why people are so closed off to WHM melee. They do it like that. Try this:

Mjollnir           Kraken            Blank                 Tiphia Sting
Walahra Turban     Prudence Torque   Suppanomimi           Merman's Earring (Brutal if not using Kraken)
Goliard Saio       Blessed Mitts +1  Snipers Ring +1       Snipers Ring +1
Bellicose Mantle   Swift Belt        Blessed Trousers +1   Blessed Pumps +1

If you don't have/can't afford Mjollnir/Kraken, use Perdu/Morgenstern or Perdu/Prudence Rod.

I use a similar setup for TPing. Not really wanting to drop 6M on 4 acc quite yet, however, i use NQ Sniper's Ring and Blood Ring; additionally, on my server, Sniper's +1 and Torreador's are the same price without the -DEF. I also use PCC rather than Prudence Torque, since I'm not currently active in Jailer farming, and apparently Ix'DRG doesn't exist. If i think I may be taking some physical hits, I'll TP in an Umbra Cape instead of the Bellicose. I'd consider TPing in Reverend Mail if I had accuracy issues in lieu of Goliard, perhaps. Hydra gear from Dynamis-Tavnazia is also great for evasive mobs, but it's quite rare. I have a Mjollnir, but not a Kraken (yet), so I off-hand Perdu or Genbu rather than Morgenstern or a pirate cudgel. Brass Jadagna +1/Perdu Wand may be an effective combo to consider as well.

WS (Hexa) setup for me is as follows:

O-Hat               Flame Gorget       Brutal Earring       Merman's Earring
Tabin Jupon +1      Hlr. Mitts +1      Blood Ring           STR ring
Bellicose Mantle    Life/Potent Belt   Blsd. Trousers +1    Creek M Clomps

As I mentioned before, I have Reverend Mail, but prefer the bit of STR and DEX and lack of MND penalty of the Tabin for WS's.

[Vail]

Wow, is that heat breath in your sig, a ballista shot o.0?

that many people don't goto ballista (and they shouldn't~)

pretty sure that's an undead swarm besieged screenshot

[Headache]

I wish there were WHM exclusive spells that removed Terror and Amnesia >_>

mt

Seconded. And if WHM can't get it's own MP back, how about giving us Pax or Regain?

Shut up I am not counting a WS as MP recovery, not when every other job has a spell or JA.

[Priran]

how about just removing the restriction on self-targeting devotion and martyr? that way, the players don't have to beta test whatever dumb shit SE comes up with to encourage WHMs to melee

[Headache]

I could see them not giving self-target for Martyr, my HP to heal my HP. And when I told others that I was asking for a self-target Devotion at the festival, they said I should just level RDM if I want Convert.

I don't want Convert or RDM, I want some damn MP!

[Rektify]

I find the overdrive FFX way of gaining TP suggested to be very interesting. If mages would be able to gain TP, why have them use a weaponskill with it? That would just put more pressure on mages to get a decent setup (and further clog inventory) to use that TP for. How about ...

What if on hitting 100% TP a mage gained access to a special spell? Hi2u Tier V's (Blm) Refresh II (Rdm) and Regain (Whm). The concept would be the same as weaponskills, except you would use a magic spell to drain your TP. How broken would it be if a BLM had access to a Tier V every say, 5-6 Nukes?

Still, the FFX Tp gain idea is gold to me.

[Sunrider]

Take Pray(Yuna's JA from FFX, other FFs), expand it to include MP(or replace HP with MP), set it at level 38, put it on a reasonable timer(so as to avoid complete nullification of refresh effects from other jobs), and BAM! Instant light MP recovery. It'd be like WHM's spike damage to RDM/BRD/COR/SMN/SCH's DoT. Separate but... well, separate.

Then, go and double the potential MP recovered from Devotion, just to ensure people still wanna merit it.

[Headache]

After giving it some thought, mage TP on spells would be terribly broken since the addition of DNC. If I gain TP for every Cure/Silence/Paralyze/Banish I throw, even if it's just 5 TP each, my WHM/DNC would easily negate the need for a backup healer. So no more SMN/WHM main heals unless you just couldn't find a WHM, RDM/DNC would be equally overpowered, BLM/DNC... I'm too tired to give that one thought. PLD/DNC... oh wow... if it isn't a powerful enough soloer as it is.

On second thought, it's not broken. GO GO SE give me spell TP!

[Rektify]

After giving it some thought, mage TP on spells would be terribly broken since the addition of DNC. If I gain TP for every Cure/Silence/Paralyze/Banish I throw, even if it's just 5 TP each, my WHM/DNC would easily negate the need for a backup healer. So no more SMN/WHM main heals unless you just couldn't find a WHM, RDM/DNC would be equally overpowered, BLM/DNC... I'm too tired to give that one thought. PLD/DNC... oh wow... if it isn't a powerful enough soloer as it is.

On second thought, it's not broken. GO GO SE give me spell TP!

Shhh.... you and your "facts"

[Not Kuno]

After giving it some thought, mage TP on spells would be terribly broken since the addition of DNC. If I gain TP for every Cure/Silence/Paralyze/Banish I throw, even if it's just 5 TP each, my WHM/DNC would easily negate the need for a backup healer. So no more SMN/WHM main heals unless you just couldn't find a WHM, RDM/DNC would be equally overpowered, BLM/DNC... I'm too tired to give that one thought. PLD/DNC... oh wow... if it isn't a powerful enough soloer as it is.

On second thought, it's not broken. GO GO SE give me spell TP!

That's why the TP you get is proportional to the damage you do/amount cured.

[Spira]

I believe Temper was only for Red Mage/Wizard,Black Mage/Wizard and Ninja and Sabre was selfcast for Black Mage/Wizard only

i believe Haste was also a black magic spell only in FF1 and 2.. but they brought that over to the white side from FF3 and its stayed over on white (and time magic) since then..

so its not too hard to fit into the game.. precedent doesnt make rule in FFXI somehow.

[SenseiFF11]

You are the moron who still don't understand that Red mage have not been adjusted for 6 years, that is the reason why he has been considered as a "backline job" only. And you are the moron that still don't realise that, now that SCH is released, SE have no choice to show the difference between SCH and RDM. Yes RDM was frontline 6 years ago, till they added refresh and convert, but after that he never got any update till now.
So no matter how hard you gonna cry and complain about it, the difference between SCH and RDM need to be accentuate.

Maybe if we complain enough they will give up the whole front line mage idea, instead of listening to the morons asking for melee enhancement on rdm or other mage jobs. You want to be a melee mage? Go lvl blu it's exactly that, who cares if 6 years ago rdm was intended to be efficient in both physical and magical side, it turned out they are better as pure mage, like how ninja wasn't "supposed" to tank.

[lolwut]

Quite honestly, aside from opening the possibility of meleeing solo/lowman fights that were previously sleep/nuke only, I couldn't be any less interested in rdm melee. It seems to me the only people who would seriously interested in doing it are the ones who are comfortable playing other jobs in a visibly sub-optimal fashion: gimps.

[SenseiFF11]

That is what I'm saying, all this is caused by SE that took too much times, to actually show the second side of Red Mages, that is why you and some people think that way, thinking that RDM best way to fight is sleep/nuke. That is due to lack of adjustments. What you need to understand now, is what RDM is going to get for meleeing in march, is not something "new" or something they decided to add at the "last minute" just because it's cool, that march update is actually something what RDM deserve!.
If I remember 6 years ago, RDM was nothing and when they added refresh, people started to sing a different tune. So why don't you just shhh and wait till march to see what they going to get?

[Meian]

All this talk of WHMs needing some way to recover MP... and no one mentions /SCH and Sublimation (my apologies if I missed a mention). I know this is more of a WHM melee discussion... but if your issue is really MP, nothing beats WHM/SCH with a BRD and/or a COR in the pt. I realize that sometimes a RDM is more ideal than a BRD or COR, but even in those cases, the MP efficiency of /SCH coupled with Refresh should be sufficient. If you're not /SCHing on WHM... stop what you're doing.

I agree but nearly every WHM here on Hades just is too lazy to level /SCH. I even try, in my endgame ls, to show the other WHM just how good it is but they are so damn stubborn -_-

[Priran]

I could see them not giving self-target for Martyr, my HP to heal my HP. And when I told others that I was asking for a self-target Devotion at the festival, they said I should just level RDM if I want Convert.

I don't want Convert or RDM, I want some damn MP!

I don't see how a WHM healing themselves for 50% of their remaining HP free of charge every 20 minutes is broken. Martyr as it is is pretty useless though, making it an emergency self-heal would make it more a appealing choice to unlock.