RDM|WHM Melee "Tweaks" to come...

[Ahlah]

I tried out DB on Skeletons in Garlaige, still unable to land Sleep/Sleep II on them with full Enfeebling merits/Relic hat/HQ staff/etc. The MAcc down thing really doesn't seem to remove immunities, despite what the wiki says. I've read people are able to land things that a mob is highly resistant to more readily, such as wind based spells on Colibri, but that's not really the same thing.

I think ppl misinterpret wiki statement. Cerberus is not immune to elegy, you can actually land it even without elemental seal but it's highly inconsistent and may take several attempts depending on BRD's gear. Ppl who have tanked Cerberus can tell you how important Elegy is esp for low man alliance, plus DB also improves the accuracy of other debuffs.

[Headache]

Was reading back through the thread, realized I missed a post somehow.

Edit: Also, on topic. Think most people are upset over the "Melee buff" to Whm not because it'll "push whm into being DDs" or anything, but rather the fact that it'll be a buff that won't help them where they need help the most. Whm need more support and mage abilities to help with MP conservation, regeneration and/or party enhancing abilities to compete with other mages for PT spots. Hell, Divine Veil in and of itself should be it's own JA at the very least. But instead of SE adjusting where Whm is hurting most, they're adding a superflous ability that at best will be used in situations where Whm can already melee and at worst will just be completely ignored. It's like putting a band aid on the arm when it's the leg that's bleeding.

Seriously, <3 you for this.

Quoting this because it's the truth. When I'm running for my life because I'm losing a fight, that...5-10 second animation lock of me putting away my weapon cause I got too far from the mob usually kills me.

....Will you take this ring?

[Shinta]

It sounds like they were going to adjust RDM for frontline play a long time ago and in the process decided to just throw WHM on that list too. Some little toy to play around in is fine but if this takes the place of a legitimate WHM update then I pray it never gets released.

[SenseiFF11]

That's right Shinta.

[Belmung]

Maybe they should stop being assholes and let us Devotion ourselves. As for the WHM melee "fix".... unless we are going to be able to magically do like 500dmg w/ Mystic Boon on VT-IT mobs, they should go back to the drawing boards.... or back to trolling forums like they "supposedly" do.

[Darkyrm]

I dont know what is the problem if SE finds a way to make whm or rdm more efficient in their healing/support duty while meleing, its not like they are going to slow a party or they need to make as much damage as a DD.

As long as the rdm or whm is not a retard and forget what is their role in the party I dont see how its a bad idea.

[Mirinika]

I dont know what is the problem if SE finds a way to make whm or rdm more efficient in their healing/support duty while meleing, its not like they are going to slow a party or they need to make as much damage as a DD.

As long as the rdm or whm is not a retard and forget what is their role in the party I dont see how its a bad idea.

Hint : Whatever they do , it'll suck.

[Headache]

If they give WHM anything in this update to let them melee, they better include Pax. I pull hate just with spells sometimes, if I start meleeing it'll be worse. And DRKs will love not having to hold back with Pax going.

(Pax is that effect from temp items in Besieged, it slows enmity gain.)

[Darkyrm]

Hint : Whatever they do , it'll suck.

Well seeing as how SE has handled very well DNC as melee healer I think theres some hope.

IMO SE has done quite a good job mixing melee role with other kind or roles from ToAU onwards looking at BLU (mage+melee), COR (BRDish+melee) or DNC (healer+melee), si Ill keep on the fence till I see what SE has in mind.

[Septimus]

Because square seems to want every job to melee and do WSes due to mythic. D:

Yes, it seems like it. But oddly enough with the 30,000 Alexandrite fee for Mythic Weapons, it seems like they don't want anyone to have them.

I agree but nearly every WHM here on Hades just is too lazy to level /SCH. I even try, in my endgame ls, to show the other WHM just how good it is but they are so damn stubborn -_-

This thread is driving me crazy. If you think that WHM isn't MP efficient, level SCH sub. Yes, leveling SCH is one of the most painful and horrifc experiences that you will ever undertake in FFXI, but SCH sub is so fucking godly that words cannot describe it. Hey, need to raise up in a hurry? Slap on haste, haste gear, and Celerity for lightning quick recasts. Sick of reraise or protect/shell eating up your MP? Use some Penury to halve those MP costs and you can even get a Conserve MP proc on top of that.

Sublimation is one of the best things to happen to WHM in this game. SCH is now my sub of choice, Sublimation and Dark Arts with Aspir can keep you going for a long time in Dynamis, and with Mystic Boon it makes campaign a lot nicer as well. In my opinion the bit WHM fix that Square needed to make happened when they buffed SCH as a main and a sub. Yeah, I wish that Atum could fart out Divine Veils every 20 seconds and had an Auto-Refresh of 100 MP a tick, but we need to live in Realism Land and take the buffs we get. ( And anyone who still thinks that RDM makes a better healer than WHM is smoking crack.)

I think ppl misinterpret wiki statement. Cerberus is not immune to elegy, you can actually land it even without elemental seal but it's highly inconsistent and may take several attempts depending on BRD's gear. Ppl who have tanked Cerberus can tell you how important Elegy is esp for low man alliance, plus DB also improves the accuracy of other debuffs.

I would love to try Death Blossom on super-resistant mobs (Shijin, ToAU Ground Kings, etc) to see how well it lowers magic evasion. (Ha ha! Shittily.)

[evilpaul]

SE should just replace the WHM AF weapon with a 22DMG KC with 100% Added Effect: MP Drain proc, have Mythic Boon learned at level 10 (the WS from the Mythic/Quest can just be made a triple strength one), give Accuracy Bonus III by level 60, and boost Club skill to A- (A+ would be overpowered). Viola! Super MP recovering WHM that gets to hit things up close and personal.

Screw this "go level a most excellent subjob" bullshit.

[Ahlah]

I would love to try Death Blossom on super-resistant mobs (Shijin, ToAU Ground Kings, etc) to see how well it lowers magic evasion. (Ha ha! Shittily.)

I will use it to make Dark skillchain so that RDM and BRD can MB Slow/Paralyze/Elegy. Magic burst is supposed to increase magic accuracy too. The fact that DB can open both Light and Dark skillchain does make it look suspicious.

Every LS brings THF for TH. THF can make a good skillchain partner with RDM, DB > TA Evisceration.

[Zaredx]

It sounds like they were going to adjust RDM for frontline play a long time ago and in the process decided to just throw WHM on that list too. Some little toy to play around in is fine but if this takes the place of a legitimate WHM update then I pray it never gets released.

Two years ago at fanfest, they made a comment about change to whm, one of them was sacrificing their HP to heal somebody else, which we got as Martyr, and the other was "something to bring them into the front lines". So it's more like SE said it then forgot about it, because at the next fanfest they only promised RDM melee stuff and didn't mention the whm melee stuff Now they've remembered again.

[Xno Kappa]

I still stick to my belief that SE should have never created SCH in the first place and just divided its various abilities amongst WHM/BLM/RDM. Would have given the much needed boost to WHM's and BLM's instead of having to bother balancing them with a new job now.

[Ziero]

Was reading back through the thread, realized I missed a post somehow.

Seriously, <3 you for this.

....Will you take this ring?

Do you have hawt boobs and/or a pic of hawt boobs. Hell, they don't even have to be yours, any hawt boobs will do. If so, then yes.

Two years ago at fanfest, they made a comment about change to whm, one of them was sacrificing their HP to heal somebody else, which we got as Martyr, and the other was "something to bring them into the front lines". So it's more like SE said it then forgot about it, because at the next fanfest they only promised RDM melee stuff and didn't mention the whm melee stuff Now they've remembered again.

The "bring Whm to the front lines" stuff was the short range of Devotion/Martyr. SE thought it would be fun if Whm had to get up from resting, run over to the fight, and use a JA that drained their HP right as the mob used it's AoE.

GG SE, GG

[Darwinion]

I haven't read the entire thread, just the first page. WHM isn't meant to be a DD... we all know that. It's OK to gear yourself up and do some soloing. I've done that on /BST in Sky before. I've also had a WHM hexa burn party on bones which was kinda fun. But the opportunities to do that don't exactly come up too often.

It's OK to give jobs buffs and new abilities etc.etc. but endgame linkshells have their strategies nailed down for the main mobs. Why change what everyone knows works to accommodate a meleeing mage? lol! We gonna give WARs an ability to cure next?

My biggest gripe was always the fact that all relic weapons have melee stats only. If club and staff had good boosts to mage related stats then we'd have seen many more of those completed. SE dropped the ball there.

[Izzy]

I keep seeing all this random shit like, "Well RDM can be a good skillchain partner for a THF" or "A WHM can really be a good substitute for a SCH with X, Y, and Z gear."

The point we were trying to make is that, why would you go out of your way to have your RDM be a skillchain partner with a THF, when your 8 other melee people there can do it better? Why would you require a WHM with X, Y, and Z gear to replace your SCH...when you could just fucking invite the SCH?

People need to stop looking at what's "possible" and look at what's most plausible and efficient. Unfortunately, while it's "possible" for WHM to do all these things, other jobs can do it 10 times better.

[Ohaigaiz]

I keep seeing all this random shit like, "Well RDM can be a good skillchain partner for a THF" or "A WHM can really be a good substitute for a SCH with X, Y, and Z gear."

The point we were trying to make is that, why would you go out of your way to have your RDM be a skillchain partner with a THF, when your 8 other melee people there can do it better? Why would you require a WHM with X, Y, and Z gear to replace your SCH...when you could just fucking invite the SCH?

People need to stop looking at what's "possible" and look at what's most plausible and efficient. Unfortunately, while it's "possible" for WHM to do all these things, other jobs can do it 10 times better.

why get whm relic when most other relics can do it better. i think the answer to that question answers what you were saying.

[Mizango]

I keep seeing all this random shit like, "Well RDM can be a good skillchain partner for a THF" or "A WHM can really be a good substitute for a SCH with X, Y, and Z gear."

The point we were trying to make is that, why would you go out of your way to have your RDM be a skillchain partner with a THF, when your 8 other melee people there can do it better? Why would you require a WHM with X, Y, and Z gear to replace your SCH...when you could just fucking invite the SCH?

People need to stop looking at what's "possible" and look at what's most plausible and efficient.

C'mon now Izzy, be reasonable man. You and everyone here knows logic has no place in this discussion.

[Izzy]

why get whm relic when most other relics can do it better. i think the answer to that question answers what you were saying.

Words can hurt too