RDM|WHM Melee "Tweaks" to come...

[Ahlah]

Is it a joke? >.<;

[Nirokun!]

Warlock's Roll is potent stuff :3

[Ahlah]

yeah you rather put corsair in every single party that has a BRD/RDM/BLM instead of getting a RDM to do DB which will benefit all the above jobs?

[Yugl]

Warlock + SCH/Evokers ftw?

[Izzy]

So let me get this straight. You, as RDM are going to:

1. Sleep adds
2. Skillchain Ouyru
3. Kill Ziyru all by yourself
4. Refresh the BLM
5. Keep yourself alive during this entire process
6. Do 1-5 without getting overwhelmed?

Once again, if you want more magic accuracy, invite a fucking Corsair instead of going through the bullshit of inviting a RDM, having him melee then skillchain Ouyru. Shit, the corsair can refresh ALL the BLM and give them ALL magic accuracy bonus within 10 seconds.

Are you getting my point yet or would you still like to argue?

[evilpaul]

DB is such an awesomely apropos abbreviation.

Since DB is so awesome, why isn't everyone already having DNCs use Stutter Step on Ouryu?

[Ahlah]

So let me get this straight. You, as RDM are going to:

1. Sleep adds
2. Skillchain Ouyru
3. Kill Ziyru all by yourself
4. Refresh the BLM
5. Keep yourself alive during this entire process
6. Do 1-5 without getting overwhelmed?

Once again, if you want more magic accuracy, invite a fucking Corsair instead of going through the bullshit of inviting a RDM, having him melee then skillchain Ouyru. Shit, the corsair can refresh ALL the BLM and give them ALL magic accuracy bonus within 10 seconds.

Are you getting my point yet or would you still like to argue?

Jesus christ your LS only allows one RDM in Ouryu fight?
So you rather have 3 corsairs in each party instead of 1 extra RDM who takes care of Ziryu and skillchain? Clever RDM don't kill Ziryu, they use it to build TP and sleep it when it's ready to perform skillchain. Also if your RDM can't stay alive against Ziryu may be you should find a new RDM.

Since DB is so awesome, why isn't everyone already having DNCs use Stutter Step on Ouryu?

I am not sure ppl are serious anymore.
RDM is highly self sufficient. They can build TP on surrounding mob, sleep it when it's ready to perform skillchain. The magic accuracy bonus offered by DB + magic burst (in theory) can only be matched by elemental seal and all it takes is one RDM to perform it.
If you don't understand why endgame LS don't use DNC in HNM fight, you should really do some research about the job.

[evilpaul]

What is your strat for Ouryu that has three Black Mage parties?

[Ahlah]

I didn't realise you can beat Ouryu with 3 parties made of BLMs only.

[Izzy]

Notice how every one of this guys arguments is for the only fight where he can use this strategy? What the fuck were we talking about not two pages ago? About how RDM and WHM need something that is NOT A NICHE and IS NOT SITUATIONAL!!!!!

Let's humor your bullshit strategy in mega-bizzaro world where Red Mages use Death Blossom on Ouyru. What other situations would you see yourself doing this in that don't involve revamping an entire strategy around your meeling RDM?

[evilpaul]

I didn't realise you can beat Ouryu with 3 parties made of BLMs only.

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/9683/briangfsh9.jpg

[Ahlah]

Notice how every one of this guys arguments is for the only fight where he can use this strategy? What the fuck were we talking about not two pages ago? About how RDM and WHM need something that is NOT A NICHE and IS NOT SITUATIONAL!!!!!

Let's humor your bullshit strategy in mega-bizzaro world where Red Mages use Death Blossom on Ouyru. What other situations would you see yourself doing this in that don't involve revamping an entire strategy around your meeling RDM?

Do you honestly believe RDM and WHM should turn into frontline jobs that engage in battle 99% of the time? RDM is alread a highly versatile job - tank, healers, debuff, solo you name it. RDM doens't actually NEED any adjustment. The concept behind DB and Mytic Boom is actually quite good, it gives RDM and WHM some nice tweaks without overpowering the jobs. Ppl whine about them because they expect to be able to do all the amazing things RDM and WHM already can and still be able to ditch out 1k weaponskill.

Honestly do I have to go through every possible situation or ppl are just plain stupid? May I introduce you to Tiamat, Cerberus, JoL and any HNM camps where weak mobs can be used to build tp?
All it takes is one RDM/NIN with proper melee gear and some weak mobs to build TP on. You don't need any fancy setup to take advantage of DB, how can ppl have problem understanding such a simple concept?

[Izzy]

Do you honestly believe RDM and WHM should turn into frontline jobs that engage in battle 99% of the time?

WHERE DID I SAY THAT OH JESUS FUCKING CHRIST YOU ARE SO GOD DAMN STUPID!

If they want WHM's to be self sufficient with MP, they need to fucking dump the entire melee thing and give them an ability or trait to do it.

That's from page fucking ONE! Have you read a single thing I've posted throughout this entire thread? Normally I love to have e-debates with people, but you're honestly getting on my last nerve. Come to think of it, where in this thread ANYWHERE have I said that? This is like arguing with a brick wall that can speak.

And also, how many fucking times are you going to say, "Why can't you guys understand a simple concept?"? Obviously it's a dumb fucking idea, so none of us are going to try to wrap our brains around it dumbfuck.

[Yugl]

Izzy: This update just another niche and won't fix the problem WHM faces (Its competition with SCH and RDM).

Ahlah: This update won't break the game, but adds another dimension to the gameplay that may be useful in certain situations. He also says it wouldn't be fair to increase RDM's melee potential to rival that of a melee.

I think most of us agree that aside from enfeebling HNMs, RDM doesn't have much of a problem with EG/HNMs, which means the effects of DB are of minimal improvement at best. So while it is a niche, I don't see it as a problem.

WHM on the other hand does need a fix and Izzy is right when he says that niches won't fix the problem. Ahlah really doesn't address this problem.

As I've mentioned in the SMN thread (And sadly too many people cannot comprehend this), improvements that only introduce niches fixes nothing (Agreeing with Izzy here). If SE wanted to fix WHM it should fix what's wrong with its ability to heal. SE tries to fix this by adding a melee component to WHM. It doesn't solve the problem because it's not WHM's primary role. If SE wants to fix the problem it should give it abilities that would be normally performed by a healer (In other words don't make the fix fall within some other "role"). In other words, don't fix WHM by making it perform a role it wouldn't usually perform. Just implement improvements that it can use readily from a healing position.

[Izzy]

What an awesome post. Thank you! Going to bed happy now!

[Nirokun!]

izzy baby

he thinks RDM WS/SC is easier than using the COR thats already in the blm PT. he doesnt get it lol

/touchMjollnir

[Ahlah]

Why would you give up a strategy that will greatly enhance your BLM/BRD/RDM spell accuracy and only involves one single RDM/NIN for a doubtful method which requires putting COR in every party for some unknown amount of magic accuracy bonus?

What exactly do WHM need fix for? Because SCH has now replaced WHM in every endgame LS? No endgame LS will give up a good WHM for any other job. Not even RDM can replace WHM in endgame scene let alone SCH. If anything SCH is a highly situational job. Just because SE recently added some new adjustment doesn't mean it can replace WHM.

There are many other jobs out there need urgent fix. WHM is already a very competent job. Mystic Boom is just a small bonus added to make the job slightly more fun to play when WHM participate in casual events/solo. Stop being a cry baby, 200-300 mp return from one single mystic boom is more than reasonable.

[evilpaul]

Why would you give up a strategy that will greatly enhance your BLM/BRD/RDM spell accuracy and only involves one single RDM/NIN for a doubtful method which requires putting COR in every party for some unknown amount of magic accuracy bonus?

What exactly do WHM need fix for? Because SCH has now replaced WHM in every endgame LS? No endgame LS will give up a good WHM for any other job. Not even RDM can replace WHM in endgame scene let alone SCH. If anything SCH is a highly situational job. Just because SE recently added some new adjustment doesn't mean it can replace WHM.

There are many other jobs out there need urgent fix. WHM is already a very competent job. Mystic Boom is just a small bonus added to make the job slightly more fun to play when WHM participate in casual events/solo. Stop being a cry baby, 200-300 mp return from one single mystic boom is more than reasonable.

How many fucking Black Mage parties do you have when you do Ouryu? What the fuck are you talking about?

What in the flying fuck does a BRD need Magic Accuracy bonuses for on Ouryu? So March doesn't resist on the PLD? "We were doing OK until Ballad resisted and then we wiped. Q_Q"

What the hell are you even talking about?

I'd really like to see a /check pic of your character with the "Ouryu Overwhelmer" title photochopped in because I seriously doubt you even have it.

[Ahlah]

May I introduce you to threnody? (in case you don't know, it's not easy to land threnody on Ouryu even with good gear/merit)

Seriously if you don't have experience in other job to see the broad picture stop posting. If you have COR in BLM party get them to do Evoker's and Wizard's, don't waste it on Warlock's roll for lol magic accuracy, you should have a RDM to help with crowd control anyway, put a sword in his/her hand. COR buffs don't even come close to DB + skillchain. All it takes is one RDM to control Ziryu and perform skillchian before Ouryu wakes up.

In case you are too dumb to understant the strategy let me simplify it:
Which option will you rather use?
DB + skillchain (massive magic accuracy boost)
BRD lands threnody (lower resistance)
BLM magic burst for 30% extra damage
COR's evoker's and Wizards rolls (MP refresh + magic attack bonus)

or

lol COR Warlock's roll + Evokers
COR in every BLM/BRD/RDM party


What about Cerberus? Tiamat? You just build your argument based on one single scenario. Good luck trying to get your BRD to land Elegy on Cerberus with the help of COR.

[evilpaul]

LOL.