Your view on a taru tank

[Tsuko_Asura]

Along with their Valhalla Helms & Breastplates right?

Only when they have Aegis.

[el_tio]

Is there any thread that can't be derailed to blinking vs. non-blinking? The world may never know...

[Furionstormrage]

Is there any thread that can't be derailed to blinking vs. non-blinking? The world may never know...

Not as long as one person gets violently offended by someone who doesn't do what they do. (Blink or not blink)

[Syntex]

Your only limitation is how well you play the job and your gear.

While at some point your HP might fall behind that of a galka you can in 99% of the situations overcome this hurdle.

What most people do when they fail at something is say "oh its because this happened" or "someone forgot to do this" as their reason why they died, when instead they should be looking and what they can do to improve their game so they can beat it. When you get to that point that there was actually nothing more you could have done then you can blame it on the taru hp pool.

Then again there is a flip side to this, how many times have you come out ahead because you were able to take advantage of a taru(thinking PLD here) and that extra heal saved that WHM from dying to AoE and saved the run.

My 2 cents: its only a limitation if you let it be one.

[kandiekane]

You do? But wait!? How do you have 1 macro palette, do you full time Crimson Cuisses?

Yeah, sure you do..

Anyways, saying that blinking doesn't make a difference is just plain stupid. I'll stick with my stronger Rampart, Sentinel, Stoneskin, Phalanx, etc.

Seriously did your mother drop you on your head when you were an infant?

Read what I posted before replying. I gear swap for enmity during JA's that make me blink. I also have 1 Kite macro that blinks me into crimson. I do NOT blink during flash, utsusemi, reprisal, and self-curing. This allows me to be in either Kite mode or idle mode without blinking with only 2 macro's.

[Mosh]

How come this, and quite possibly every PLD thread made, turns/turned into a "Should tanks blink" argument? It's been beaten to death and both sides have valid opinions. Talk to your mages.. if they are comfortable with you blinking, or they have blink-me-not, then blink away.

But to the actual topic at hand..

I am a taru tank with both PLD and NIN at 75. There is never an instance in which I am afraid of being 1 shotted. The only thing that used to make me worry was Citadel Buster and I can survive that with Shell5 and my cheap gear (FFXIAH Link) on PLD. Never tanked it on NIN so can't help there.

But let's see, as PLD I have tanked:
Ultima, Omega, All sky triggers and gods (including straight tanked kirin), KS99 wyrm, Jorm, pretty much all of the jailers in sea (including straight tanked jailer of faith), etc etc. This isn't a pat on the back, I know my tanking could use improvement, this is just showing that race doesn't limit me to what I can and can not do.

Now go ahead and bicker about whether tanks should blink or not..

[[Cookies]]

Seriously did your mother drop you on your head when you were an infant?

Read what I posted before replying. I gear swap for enmity during JA's that make me blink. I also have 1 Kite macro that blinks me into crimson. I do NOT blink during flash, utsusemi, reprisal, and self-curing. This allows me to be in either Kite mode or idle mode without blinking with only 2 macro's.

I didn't realise Phalanx, Stoneskin, Enspells, Cures etc. were JAs.

Also, JAs (minus the apostrophe, learn to grammar) don't make you blink, it's switching the gear that makes you blink.

[kandiekane]

I didn't realise Phalanx, Stoneskin, Enspells, Cures etc. were JAs..

You don't cast SS, phalanx, enspells every 20 seconds. And if you're tanking something /rdm, you are self sufficient in curing yourself or solo'ing.

It is okay to blink with those spells. We are talking about HNM endgame, pld/rdm and pld/dnc is never used except JoL.

[[Cookies]]

You don't cast SS, phalanx, enspells every 20 seconds. And if you're tanking something /rdm, you are self sufficient in curing yourself or solo'ing.

It is okay to blink with those spells. We are talking about HNM endgame, pld/rdm and pld/dnc is never used except JoL.

What the fuck are you talking about? PLD/RDM can be used for LOT of endgame events.

Einherjar, Dynamis, Aspid, Limbus, Ouryu, everything in Sea except AV, sky farming, etc. If your very well geared you can even tank stuff like Ixion as /RDM.

Why anyone would use PLD/DNC on JOL is really beyond me and why the heck do you put random punctuation in words? Soloing != solo'ing.

If your a decent PLD/NIN and you have enough Refresh then you should be curing someone every few seconds, for shorter fights your going to want to get lots of hate as fast as possible.

[kandiekane]

What the fuck are you talking about? PLD/RDM can be used for LOT of endgame events.

Einherjar, Dynamis, Aspid, Limbus, Ouryu, everything in Sea except AV, sky farming, etc. If your very well geared you can even tank stuff like Ixion as /RDM.

Why anyone would use PLD/DNC on JOL is really beyond me and why the heck do you put random punctuation in words? Soloing != solo'ing.

If your a decent PLD/NIN and you have enough Refresh then you should be curing someone every few seconds, for shorter fights your going to want to get lots of hate as fast as possible.

If you think pld/rdm is usefull for Einherjar, Dynamis, Aspid, Limbus, everything in Sea, sky farming, you have never heard of Pld/war or Pld/drk and you are an idiot for going /rdm to those events.

Ouryu i guess is valid, but if you think that's endgame, then you need to get into a REAL endgame LS.

PLD/DNC as I said, is nothing more than a campaign/solo job choice. PLD/RDM is same, but trumped with PLD/DRK and PLD/WAR in almost all cases except for JoL and Ouryu.

I personally think you know nothing of endgame and talking out of your ass ^^

If you bring PLD/RDM to dynamis, limbus, and einherjar, may god save you.

[[Cookies]]

PLD/DNC as I said, is nothing more than a campaign/solo job choice.

I'm going to ignore the other bullshit that you spouted and focus on this.

We are talking about HNM endgame, pld/rdm and pld/dnc is never used except JoL.

I don't see the words Campaign or solo in that sentence.

Tl;dr your a retard, end of story.

/derail off

[kandiekane]

I'm going to ignore the other bullshit that you spouted and focus on this.



I don't see the words Campaign or solo in that sentence.

Tl;dr your a retard, end of story.

/derail off

You're going to ignore all the reasons you're an idiot and focus on the fact that I lumped /DNC and /RDM into the same category?

Of course /DNC can't tank JoL, you misinterpreted what I meant.

Let me reiterate, JoL and ouryu are the only 2 reason why you would ever sub rdm outside of solo/campaign. Every other event has a better alternative.

[Kaeko]

PLD/RDM is useful on things that do weak hits but attacks fast. I remember 6 manning Sarameya using PLD/DRK, which generally follows the same principles as PLD/RDM except you trade a loss of CE gain for stun. PLD/RDM or PLD/BLM is also quite useful in Einherjar, depending on your LS's crowd control strategy and job alignments.

It's fairly situational considering the strength of blink tanking in endgame over blood tanking, but to say it's only useful in 2 things is either hyperbole or just misguided. /DNC is a much less viable sub due to no CE gaining abilities.

[kandiekane]

PLD/RDM is useful on things that do weak hits but attacks fast. I remember 6 manning Sarameya using PLD/DRK, which generally follows the same principles as PLD/RDM except you trade a loss of CE gain for stun. PLD/RDM or PLD/BLM is also quite useful in Einherjar, depending on your LS's crowd control strategy and job alignments.

It's fairly situational considering the strength of blink tanking in endgame over blood tanking, but to say it's only useful in 2 things is either hyperbole or just misguided. /DNC is a much less viable sub due to no CE gaining abilities.

Of course I am generalizing. There are plenty of niche things you can use with any job/subjob combination for specific things. I'm just saying people will want Pld/War or Pld/Drk for dynamis/einharjar/limbus 99% of the time.

Edit:

Crowd control is better left for brd's, blm's, and rdm's. ES sleepga1 every 15 minutes does not outweigh the benefits of a different sub.

[[Cookies]]

Of course I am generalizing. There are plenty of niche things you can use with any job/subjob combination for specific things. I'm just saying people will want Pld/War or Pld/Drk for dynamis/einharjar/limbus 99% of the time.

you are an idiot for going /rdm to those events

Sorry if i'm misunderstanding something but, what exactly does /WAR have over /RDM for Dark Ixion/Aspid/Sea/Sky?

Einherjar/Dynamis sure, PLD/BLM and PLD/WAR can work but does that necessarily mean someone doesn't know what they're doing for choosing a subjob which is better than /WAR and /BLM for damage mitigation?

Anyways, seeing as I know little about endgame maybe you should speak to Stanislav. I'm sure he'll be able to inform you about the uses of /RDM in endgame.

Edit:

I'm just saying people will want Pld/War or Pld/Drk for dynamis/einharjar/limbus 99% of the time.

Neither the linkshell im in currently or my previous linkshell used PLD/WAR for anything unless you didn't have /RDM. As far as we know we don't use /DRK or /BLM for many things either. /DRK in my opinion, is a kiting subjob and /BLM or possibly even /BLU is decent for crowd control along with /RDM depending on whether your super tanking or actually building hate.

[kandiekane]

Sorry if i'm misunderstanding something but, what exactly does /WAR have over /RDM for Dark Ixion/Aspid/Sea/Sky?

Einherjar/Dynamis sure, PLD/BLM and PLD/WAR can work but does that necessarily mean someone doesn't know what they're doing for choosing a subjob which is better than /WAR and /BLM for damage mitigation?

Anyways, seeing as I know little about endgame maybe you should speak to Stanislav. I'm sure he'll be able to inform you about the uses of /RDM in endgame.

Edit:



Neither the linkshell im in currently or my previous linkshell used PLD/WAR for anything unless you didn't have /RDM. As far as we know we don't use /DRK or /BLM for many things either. /DRK in my opinion, is a kiting subjob and /BLM or possibly even /BLU is decent for crowd control along with /RDM depending on whether your super tanking or actually building hate.

You use pld/rdm for damage mitigation? But you can't hold hate for shit. Pld/Rdm is about longterm hate, building CE slowly with dispel, bind, blind. WTF are you going to do with that in dynamis/limbus/einherjar where mobs die in 5 seconds lol!?!?

Dark Ixion - excal does shit damage, /rdm good luck getting SS up. Phalanx can be given to you from rdm alla phalanx 2. So wtf is /rdm good for except getting beaten up to a pulp. I have an aegis, and with full shield skill setup, it's would be VERY difficult and retarted to tank DI /rdm when /nin offers you such better damage mitigation in addition to shield procs.

[[Cookies]]

You use pld/rdm for damage mitigation? But you can't hold hate for shit. Pld/Rdm is about longterm hate, building CE slowly with dispel, bind, blind. WTF are you going to do with that in dynamis/limbus/einherjar where mobs die in 5 seconds lol!?!?

Dark Ixion - excal does shit damage, /rdm good luck getting SS up. Phalanx can be given to you from rdm alla phalanx 2. So wtf is /rdm good for except getting beaten up to a pulp. I have an aegis, and with full shield skill setup, it's would be VERY difficult and retarted to tank DI /rdm when /nin offers you such better damage mitigation in addition to shield procs.

Who the heck mentioned Excalibur?

Dark Ixion, a good linkshell can kill it in 20-30 mins?
Aspid, sure it can be killed quickly but it's not going to die in 5 seconds.
Sky - Faust/Zipacna, assuming your fighting with lower numbers these sure as fuck don't die in 5 seconds, by low numbers I mean less than a party.
Sea - Nothing I can think of that dies in 5 seconds.

Let's get some actual numbers.

Provoke - 30 seconds recast, 1800 VE.

Dispel - 10 seconds recast, 3 seconds cast time 320 CE, 320 VE.
Blind - 10 seconds recast, 2 seconds cast time, 640 VE.

Now factor in fast cast and also haste and you should be able to get off 6 spells in 30 seconds. In total that would be 960 CE and 2880 VE.

You say that /RDM is about building hate up over time yet /WAR actually provides less hate in 30 seconds.

There are plenty of linkshells that can kill Dark Ixion using PLD/RDMs, heck, he doesn't even hit that hard without Aegis.

[kandiekane]

Who the heck mentioned Excalibur?

Dark Ixion, a good linkshell can kill it in 20-30 mins?
Aspid, sure it can be killed quickly but it's not going to die in 5 seconds.
Sky - Faust/Zipacna, assuming your fighting with lower numbers these sure as fuck don't die in 5 seconds, by low numbers I mean less than a party.
Sea - Nothing I can think of that dies in 5 seconds.

Let's get some actual numbers.

Provoke - 30 seconds recast, 1800 VE.

Dispel - 10 seconds recast, 3 seconds cast time 320 CE, 320 VE.
Blind - 10 seconds recast, 2 seconds cast time, 640 VE.

Now factor in fast cast and also haste and you should be able to get off 6 spells in 30 seconds. In total that would be 960 CE and 2880 VE.

You say that /RDM is about building hate up over time yet /WAR actually provides less hate in 30 seconds.

There are plenty of linkshells that can kill Dark Ixion using PLD/RDMs, heck, he doesn't even hit that hard without Aegis.

you mentioned stainslav, so i assume u were talking about excal. Becuase tons of other ppl have aegis, including me.

With aegis, you think proc rate it 100%? lol. You still get your ass handed to you. You don't know what your talking about.

So, um /DRK doesn't have hate tools for dynamis/limbus? are you serious? It will ROCK /rdm's world hahaha, not even a fair comparison.

Sky shit you just have to stay alive, and nothing /rdm offers allow you to do any better than /nin or /war. Unless you solo'ing or lomaning stuff, then you don't even need a pld. Just have rdm/nin solo everything, and a pld/nin or nin/whatever kite MG.

your rebuttles fail just like you do.

[[Cookies]]

you mentioned stainslav, so i assume u were talking about excal. Becuase tons of other ppl have aegis, including me.

With aegis, you think proc rate it 100%? lol. You still get your ass handed to you. You don't know what your talking about.

So, um /DRK doesn't have hate tools for dynamis/limbus? are you serious? It will ROCK /rdm's world hahaha, not even a fair comparison.

Sky shit you just have to stay alive, and nothing /rdm offers allow you to do any better than /nin or /war. Unless you solo'ing or lomaning stuff, then you don't even need a pld. Just have rdm/nin solo everything, and a pld/nin or nin/whatever kite MG.

your rebuttles fail just like you do.

You can't even spell rebuttal right.

Now, let's compare /DRK and /RDM.

/RDM

Stoneskin - assuming you have the right gear you can get this up to 410 damage reduction.
Phalanx - ok we're assuming that you don't have Phalanx II, with the right gear this can be boosted to -23 damage a hit.

From dispel and blind you gain 960 CE and 2880 VE per 30 seconds.

/DRK

Stun - 180 CE 1280 VE, 0.5 second cast time, 45 second recast. Assuming you have a good amount of haste we'll reduce that recast to 30 seconds.
Souleater - 1300 VE, 6 minute recast.
Last Resort - 1300 VE, 5 minute recast.

Souleater is roughly 108 VE every 30 seconds (keep in mind you can't use this for every mob) and Last Resort is 130 VE every 30 seconds.

So in total you gain 180 CE and 1518 VE.

The maths isn't entirely accurate but /RDM will still pull ahead per 30 seconds. Not to mention the fact that Souleater and Last Resort can't be used frequently. Plus, you also have Stoneskin and Phalanx so you will be taking very low amounts of damage.

In conclusion, /DRK is a good subjob for anything where you won't have 30 seconds to be spamming spells for hate.

/RDM is decent for lower numbers where mobs aren't dying really quickly and you can build hate on slept mobs.

This a decent enough rebuttal for you?

Edit: thanks Kaeko for the awesome enmity testing you've done!

[kandiekane]

You can't even spell rebuttal right.

Now, let's compare /DRK and /RDM.

/RDM

Stoneskin - assuming you have the right gear you can get this up to 410 damage reduction.
Phalanx - ok we're assuming that you don't have Phalanx II, with the right gear this can be boosted to -23 damage a hit.

From dispel and blind you gain 960 CE and 2880 VE per 30 seconds.

/DRK

Stun - 180 CE 1280 VE, 0.5 second cast time, 45 second recast. Assuming you have a good amount of haste we'll reduce that recast to 30 seconds.
Souleater - 1300 VE, 6 minute recast.
Last Resort - 1300 VE, 5 minute recast.

Souleater is roughly 108 VE every 30 seconds (keep in mind you can't use this for every mob) and Last Resort is 130 VE every 30 seconds.

So in total you gain 180 CE and 1518 VE.

The maths isn't entirely accurate but /RDM will still pull ahead per 30 seconds. Not to mention the fact that Souleater and Last Resort can't be used frequently. Plus, you also have Stoneskin and Phalanx so you will be taking very low amounts of damage.

In conclusion, /DRK is a good subjob for anything where you won't have 30 seconds to be spamming spells for hate.

/RDM is decent for lower numbers where mobs aren't dying really quickly and you can build hate on slept mobs.

This a decent enough rebuttal for you?

Edit: thanks Kaeko for the awesome enmity testing you've done!

you forgot sleep and bind, you fails