Mythic Weapon Information (Page1 - hot new info!)

[Yugl]

SE: With the addition of our new challenging monster "Hydra" within the Wajaom Woodlands - we'd like to get some feedback on how our playerbase is enjoying the newest creation!

Players: Its fun but the rewards suck. Orobon Lure from an HNM? Is that supposed to be a joke? Please add better loot SE!

*Next patch rolls in*

Players: Omg Hydra drops this sweet new katana! They listened to us!

SE: We're happy to have pleased you guys - now we'd like to request some feedback about Moblin Maze Mongers - do you enjoy the concept? What needs work?

If SE kept an open line of communication this game would easily be on par with Blizzards dev teams. The main problems SE has is direct communication and swift resolution of player problems. WoW players usually say that the dev teams listen too much to the playerbase and that problems arise from it but the overall FFXI playerbase has been complaining about the same issues for years so it wouldnt be hard to fix many of the problems or at least talk about them with the players.

Its always disheartening to see SE patch something thats broken within the next update (stuff like 2handed weapons and mazurkahorn) but the constant stream of complaining about stuff like poor lootpools on HNM or lackluster new JAs (footwork) will take years to resolve.

Unlike the WoW playerbase which is huge, the smaller FFXI playerbase allows for better communication between developer and gamer in a closer relationship.... if SE would ever allow it.

It's impractical for them to have that kind of set up. It would require them to go through thousands of messages and figure out a fix that would encompass what everyone wants. Just look at BG. There's lots of conformity in terms of views on what needs to be fixed or changed, but even within this forum there is disagreement among players about how to fix problems. Imagine if you add in the opinions of all other NA and JP FFXI related websites. You'll probably come up with about a thousand different takes on how to fix PUP alone. Chances are they would still make "fixes" that people don't agree with. The problem is there's no conformity within the playerbase on what needs to be fixed and how to fix these problems.

Another issue with this is that people want the game to adjust in order to fit their needs. Look at the people who want classes fixed, those who play the class will gladly accept an update that makes them broken, while others will disagree with such an idea (2H Update). Even when the issue isn't related to classes, there will be disagreement about the extend to which an issue should be fixed. Take AV for example. Some LSs could beat AV and said the problem was solved. Other LSs say it's not solved because they can't beat AV through non-KC means.

When all these factors are considered, it's clear that such as system would have limited, if any affect on how to fix the solution.

[ringthree]

It's impractical for them to have that kind of set up. It would require them to go through thousands of messages and figure out a fix that would encompass what everyone wants. Just look at BG. There's lots of conformity in terms of views on what needs to be fixed or changed, but even within this forum there is disagreement among players about how to fix problems. Imagine if you add in the opinions of all other NA and JP FFXI related websites. You'll probably come up with about a thousand different takes on how to fix PUP alone. Chances are they would still make "fixes" that people don't agree with. The problem is there's no conformity within the playerbase on what needs to be fixed and how to fix these problems.

Another issue with this is that people want the game to adjust in order to fit their needs. Look at the people who want classes fixed, those who play the class will gladly accept an update that makes them broken, while others will disagree with such an idea (2H Update). Even when the issue isn't related to classes, there will be disagreement about the extend to which an issue should be fixed. Take AV for example. Some LSs could beat AV and said the problem was solved. Other LSs say it's not solved because they can't beat AV through non-KC means.

When all these factors are considered, it's clear that such as system would have limited, if any affect on how to fix the solution.

No, I think you are confusing the concept. No one is saying that have to implement everything, or even anything we bitch about. Just knowing that someone is listening to what is being said in the community and having that communication be two way would do tons to boost the confidence of the players.

[Zilong]

You pretty much need to print out all your queries, roll them up, and beat the developer team with it for like 2 years to get any kind of vague answer out of it if AV was supposed to be an indication for anything.

[orson]

The thing is they've already said that they watch forums and listen to feedback sent to their suggestion box. The reason they don't communicate back is they don't have enough time for it, but more likely it's because they have their own idea of the direction of the game. Sure if you have a massive amount of players complaining about things AKA 2-handers, Pld being a worse tank than Nin, etc. then they do something. Even then I think those things fall into their "plan" for the game. The reason I think this is simply because of the way they've treated AV and PW it's fairly obvious they don't really give a shit about what players are saying when it's SE's pet project.

Everyone's saying, "oh SE still is improving the game look they increased exp, level sync, FoV, etc." Who are they doing this for? For the player that's been playing for 5-6 years? Ya right, the higher ups probably have been telling the dev team that they have to make the game easier and friendlier for NEW players. SE knows we aren't likely to quit being that we've been giving them money for so long. I bet the quitting rate at endgame is irrelevant to content that's actually been completely. That's why they are focusing on the early game because they aren't threatened by the endgame community quitting.

[Yugl]

No, I think you are confusing the concept. No one is saying that have to implement everything, or even anything we bitch about. Just knowing that someone is listening to what is being said in the community and having that communication be two way would do tons to boost the confidence of the players.

If they're not going to implement anything you bitch about, then hows that different from what we have now? There's a suggestions box and they do check specific forums. Players bitch because their ideas and suggestions aren't implemented. There's a difference between listening and action. SE could be doing the former right now. However, the only way players feel that is happening is if the latter takes place. Notice in the example he gave that SE took action after receiving complaints. That action is what makes players feel SE is "listening".

[ringthree]

If they're not going to implement anything you bitch about, then hows that different from what we have now? There's a suggestions box and they do check specific forums. Players bitch because their ideas and suggestions aren't implemented. There's a difference between listening and action. SE could be doing the former right now. However, the only way players feel that is happening is if the latter takes place. Notice in the example he gave that SE took action after receiving complaints. That action is what makes players feel SE is "listening".

It's about communication, I outlined this earlier in the thread.

Two-way communication is what is missing for the community. A representative from SE that posts on one of the heavily moderated FFXI boards every couple of days.

I have no problem saying that 99% of the bitching about this game in general is useless, stupid and vacuous. Most player ideas should not be implemented. But at least having a voice to be able to communicate with someone at SE that could talk with other FFXI developers would make the community, especially the NA and EU people, feel less ignored.

For example, a good model for this is Blizzard's WoW forum. It's basically a cesspool of idiots and newbies, but there are several Blizzard representatives that post often with new stuff from the Dev team and they ask opinions from the players which are for the most part probably ignored.

Look at how Ronin phrased it. It shouldn't be about how the players think it should be designed, it should be more about getting the up or down on new ideas. We have no idea about the limitations that the Dev teams have, so giving specific ideas is probably useless, but we can tell them if we like something or not and if it is rewarding enough or not.

[Jakson]

You pretty much need to print out all your queries, roll them up, and beat the developer team with it for like 2 years to get any kind of vague answer out of it if AV was supposed to be an indication for anything.

This makes me wonder if anybody has ever written an actual letter and mailed it to anybody at SE. Like, they probably look at the suggestion box with it's 9 billion messages and hit the delete key, whereas if somebody got an envelope directed at Sage or whoever they might go "Holy crap, when's the last time anybody saw one of these that wasn't a bill or ad?!"

[Zilong]

At one of the interview, bercus or whoever conducted the interview pretty much had the whole king system, sea, and the newer HNM (well, on that time frame anyway, since it had up to CoP wyrms) problems printed out with some flowcharts and whatnot. That was like at least 2 years ago.

Vrtra still stands silently on the dragon king's tomb, and Jormungand's only fight these days are people trying to 6 man him or something.

[Devolver]

At one of the interview, bercus or whoever conducted the interview pretty much had the whole king system, sea, and the newer HNM (well, on that time frame anyway, since it had up to CoP wyrms) problems printed out with some flowcharts and whatnot. That was like at least 2 years ago.

Along with the picture of Sundi basically laughing at them when he was reading through it?

That irritated me more than anything >.>

[ronin sparthos]

It's impractical for them to have that kind of set up. It would require them to go through thousands of messages and figure out a fix that would encompass what everyone wants. Just look at BG. There's lots of conformity in terms of views on what needs to be fixed or changed, but even within this forum there is disagreement among players about how to fix problems. Imagine if you add in the opinions of all other NA and JP FFXI related websites. You'll probably come up with about a thousand different takes on how to fix PUP alone. Chances are they would still make "fixes" that people don't agree with. The problem is there's no conformity within the playerbase on what needs to be fixed and how to fix these problems.

Another issue with this is that people want the game to adjust in order to fit their needs. Look at the people who want classes fixed, those who play the class will gladly accept an update that makes them broken, while others will disagree with such an idea (2H Update). Even when the issue isn't related to classes, there will be disagreement about the extend to which an issue should be fixed. Take AV for example. Some LSs could beat AV and said the problem was solved. Other LSs say it's not solved because they can't beat AV through non-KC means.

When all these factors are considered, it's clear that such as system would have limited, if any affect on how to fix the solution.

My example was pointed more towards the idea that SE should at the least get more involved in the day to day toils of the active playerbase via forums. Thats not to say that the playerbase speaks as one entity but by communicating with players actively you could tailor content far better than snooping around forums. This would also at the same time shake off the stigma that SE only cares about the Japanese playerbase by getting the NA and EU players to speak on issues to someone weekly.


Obviously people would not agree on many points but for every point the playerbase cannot agree is a point where the playerbase can agree and what better way to solve those problems than to have someone from SE talk to players? It sure as hell beats the "send us a suggestion via email, we wont respond to you either." How many people actually feel SE reads those suggestion emails if they never respond to players about them?

I'll use my Hydra example again:

Lets suppose SE actually asked tomorrow how players felt about Hydra - the overwhelming response would be that its a fun HNM but the rewards are junk.

Yes, some people would say that hes fine the way he is or that he needs to be nerfed or whatever but the overwhelming response and evidence would point to Hydra needing an adjustment. (He sits up all day while people nag the GMs about the same HNMs weekly no?) SE could then add new rewards to Hydra and not only would the players feel that they participated in changing an aspect of the game but the developers will have known that they fixed something that players wanted fixed.

SE could pose questions as well which would help prevent the situation from devolving into "Hey SE i want time mage lulz". Questions like "How do you feel about Pankration?" "What do you think is hurting crafting?" "How do you think we should approach balancing meripo" etc. People would then debate and argue but ultimately SE would get ideas from these discussions that would then go towards making a better endproduct.

[Virtuous Saint]

My example was pointed more towards the idea that SE should at the least get more involved in the day to day toils of the active playerbase via forums. Thats not to say that the playerbase speaks as one entity but by communicating with players actively you could tailor content far better than snooping around forums. This would also at the same time shake off the stigma that SE only cares about the Japanese playerbase by getting the NA and EU players to speak on issues to someone weekly.


Obviously people would not agree on many points but for every point the playerbase cannot agree is a point where the playerbase can agree and what better way to solve those problems than to have someone from SE talk to players? It sure as hell beats the "send us a suggestion via email, we wont respond to you either." How many people actually feel SE reads those suggestion emails if they never respond to players about them?

I'll use my Hydra example again:

Lets suppose SE actually asked tomorrow how players felt about Hydra - the overwhelming response would be that its a fun HNM but the rewards are junk.

Yes, some people would say that hes fine the way he is or that he needs to be nerfed or whatever but the overwhelming response and evidence would point to Hydra needing an adjustment. (He sits up all day while people nag the GMs about the same HNMs weekly no?) SE could then add new rewards to Hydra and not only would the players feel that they participated in changing an aspect of the game but the developers will have known that they fixed something that players wanted fixed.

SE could pose questions as well which would help prevent the situation from devolving into "Hey SE i want time mage lulz". Questions like "How do you feel about Pankration?" "What do you think is hurting crafting?" "How do you think we should approach balancing meripo" etc. People would then debate and argue but ultimately SE would get ideas from these discussions that would then go towards making a better endproduct.

well said sir, well said.

[Skjie]

Do I enjoy the game still?

Yes, enough of it to keep on playing despite of all its flaw

Do I wish that the developer would get their collective heads out of their asses and actually try to make this game's content that much more enjoyable?

Fuck yes.

This. The part I guess I'm not getting across is that I've quit every end game event when I got tired of it. No matter how much you say you enjoy events, the 20th time you get head/hands from Ultima it gets really fucking old.

Also, basically all my original friends have quit FFXI, so it's not about IRC.

[Lordwafik]

Seriously, if people play for content, whitegate wouldn't be nearly as full as it is these days.

Can't really use this as a playing card as whitegate is a home base for many things including : Besieged, Salvage, Nyzul, Assault, Exp in ToAU zones. If anything, it means people are using that content and its surroundings.

[LD]

Also, Whitegate has thinned out a lot since the old days and you can't really count afk people, since whatever they're doing, it's not within the game, so the 'mIRC you pay for' bit doesn't really apply.

[Zilong]

Can't really use this as a playing card as whitegate is a home base for many things including : Besieged, Salvage, Nyzul, Assault, Exp in ToAU zones. If anything, it means people are using that content and its surroundings.

Ok lemme reword that.

If people actually playing content, there'd be less faggots having shouting match on whitegate.

Better?

[LD]

It's a common misconception that stupid jagoffs annoy people because they have nothing better to do.
The truth is they can do it at any time, then ADD & ego kick in and they immediately forget what they were supposed to be doing.

The people who argue in shout are not a good example.

[Lordwafik]

Ok lemme reword that.

If people actually playing content, there'd be less faggots having shouting match on whitegate.

Better?

In a faster paced game maybe, but I wouldn't really agree with that for something as slow as FFXI. Even for someone who wants to spend their time in as much content as possible (hell I'd live in Dynamis if I could), most of the time we're locked out by silly timers.

The people you see having shout matches in Whitegate would be having shout matches in any other MMO. This isn't something unique to this game. There's always a croud that hangs in the town and does nothing but socialize in their own way.

[Rocl]

That is actually a worse argument than your previous one.

[Kaylia]

I was under the impression he was saying there would be less people staring at moogle or doing nothing worthwhile if there was better content out there.

I agree it has nothing to do with retarded shout match, but no one should ever wait in WG for something to show up when they want to play.

[LD]

Yea, but someone can be idling in WG (not afk) and still have no one to talk to or not be so obnoxious that he'd engage in an asinine shouting match.



I have a question, when did this topic stop being about mythic weapons?

Follow-up: Can we delete every post between then and now?