RDM Tanks?

[Callisto]

I think this is where I say something about RDM/DRK tanking being the best of both worlds, since every time I try to go as normal RDM to Omega both tanks eat a Pile Pitch near the end and I end up as the kiter because of all the Stun hate I have built up

[Tsuko_Asura]

WHY DIDN'T YOU STUN COLLOSAL BLOW THEN?!

[Vyerz]

Touche Salesman

I'll admit I'm a bit biased

I was doing some Rdm/nin tanking myself for a bit, but difference between a skilled and well geared (lots of money invested) Rdm/nin and a shitty one is huge.

But my main reason for liking Nin/drk as a tank is that even if they get hate reset, when they pop all those high VE causing Spells and JA's they usually get hate back instantly (and long enough to build enough CE again).

[Callisto]

WHY DIDN'T YOU STUN COLLOSAL BLOW THEN?!

I just stun on WS animation before I see the name, I swear I always nail something like Laser Shower, run in and Weapon Bash the next move and get Floodlight, then as I'm running back he uses hate reset when Stun timer is @ 3 seconds.

[Tsuko_Asura]

No disagreement, on both accounts. It'd be nice to have a Last Resort or Sentinel-esque ability, but I don't mind trading that for being entirely self-sufficient.

And luckily, even the most suited Red Mage tanks generally don't get to see any action, let alone the awful ones. Its a love/hate stigma we have going on here.

[Callisto]

I typically rely on Convert/C4 spam as a VE spike if I get a hate reset as RDM/NIN, but yeah it sucks to come back from. It's possible to do it quickly, but you blow a ton of MP doing so.

[Vyerz]

I wonder if you could like 3 man Omega <.< I know I've killed it with 6 my first time and we had like Nin/drk, Rdm/drk, Whm, Brd, Blm, Blm It would be so much /win to do it with 3

[Callisto]

I'm not sure if you could manage it time-wise, and pods might be an issue...probably something like PLD/NIN RDM/DRK WHM/SCH would be the way to go though...maybe with 4 having something like a SAM/WAR for pods.

[Vyerz]

Well I know for sure that two blm's can litterally do enough damage to win the fight within the time limit and two nukes should kill a pod, but I guess it would help to have a second refresher

[Belkin]

Using the argument of hate management to decide which tank is better is somewhat of a joke.

A great RDM and a great PLD will keep the same amount of hate. The only real question is what do you feel like playing that day? It's that simple, it's why people still play both.

The styles are different and they both bring something unique to the table. You can forget about all this "Oh RDM is far superior" or "Oh PLD is the only thing my LS uses", in the end they both get you to the same place if the person playing is good.

However, in some instances, I would take RDM over PLD or PLD over RDM.

RDM in a quick scramble to claim an HNM with very little support. The timers are a God send when you are by yourself with little to no support.

PLD I would take in virtually all circumstances if they had Aegis + Excalibur/Hauteclaire/Burtgang.

General tanking? Who cares. The player determines if the tank is good or not.

[Syntex]

Using the argument of hate management to decide which tank is better is somewhat of a joke.

A great RDM and a great PLD will keep the same amount of hate. The only real question is what do you feel like playing that day? It's that simple, it's why people still play both.

The styles are different and they both bring something unique to the table. You can forget about all this "Oh RDM is far superior" or "Oh PLD is the only thing my LS uses", in the end they both get you to the same place if the person playing is good.

However, in some instances, I would take RDM over PLD or PLD over RDM.

RDM in a quick scramble to claim an HNM with very little support. The timers are a God send when you are by yourself with little to no support.

PLD I would take in virtually all circumstances if they had Aegis + Excalibur/Hauteclaire/Burtgang.

General tanking? Who cares. The player determines if the tank is good or not.

Your my hero, love your LJ.

Anyways I more or less wanted to prove a point to my friend that the traditional tank roles with /war are a thing of the past when something doesn't die in <1 minute and its pretty clear with all this support and how major HNM LS's use tanks.

On a side note where does Ninja stand in all this, did people just completely stop using them for HNM fights because they lack all the perks of the other 2? Because when it comes to who is better NIN seems to be left completely out of the conversation so I am assuming that PLD and RDM pull far enough ahead that leaves NIN in the dust?

[Tsuko_Asura]

Using the argument of hate management to decide which tank is better is somewhat of a joke.

A great RDM and a great PLD will keep the same amount of hate. The only real question is what do you feel like playing that day? It's that simple, it's why people still play both.

The styles are different and they both bring something unique to the table. You can forget about all this "Oh RDM is far superior" or "Oh PLD is the only thing my LS uses", in the end they both get you to the same place if the person playing is good.

However, in some instances, I would take RDM over PLD or PLD over RDM.

RDM in a quick scramble to claim an HNM with very little support. The timers are a God send when you are by yourself with little to no support.

PLD I would take in virtually all circumstances if they had Aegis + Excalibur/Hauteclaire/Burtgang.

General tanking? Who cares. The player determines if the tank is good or not.

Properly equipped Excalibur? Yes, without a doubt. They bring much more to to the table than any Red Mage could. Aegis/Hauteclaire/Burtgang? Not at all. You of all people should know that we can replicate the real benefit of Aegis and then some, and I hold Hauteclaire and Burtgang in very low regard when it comes to /NIN tanking.

[Drex]

NIN/DRK is just as much in the running as RDM/NIN and PLD/NIN or PLD/RDM, they all work great in the right hands

[Vyerz]

lol I get exalibur, burtang maybe.. but Haute? That's an overrated little toy at best

[Tsuko_Asura]

lol I get exalibur, burtang maybe.. but Haute? That's an overrated little toy at best

Personally I think they're both trash, in regards to the effort one generally needs to put forth to obtain them.

[Belkin]

You underestimate the damage over time these weapons put out. You think Hauteclaire is only about the -7% physical damage taken don't you?

7 Accuracy, 46 DMG, 240 Delay is a damn good sword. With Homam Gloves/Feet/Legs, Ares Body, Cerb Mantle, Speed/Swift Belt, Turban, Fortitude Torque, Suppanomimi and more in an Idle set (basically melee) you WILL crank out damage, I guarantee you that my friend.

Just the other day I duo PLD tanked Proto Ultima with a LS mate that was not utilizing a good idle/TP set. I got 300 TP for Spirits Within a total of 5 times in a 10 minute fight. Not to mention the 300 TP I used for Chivalry. Throw on some Dorado Sushi and you have a pretty damn good accuracy % as well. As Stanislav can attest to, PLD melee is not something you should overlook.

In regards to the NIN tanking question. It works very well, especially when you can use Elemental Suits against Tiamat, Ouryu, Wyrm, etc. Elemental Suits are better for NINs because they are not required to cure themselves for hate like PLD's. So they can get hit for 10's and 20's and still have ways to keep hate. Where as a PLD gets hit for 10's and 20's and ends up losing a bunch of hate in the long run because they can't cure themselves.

But that's the same reason I don't like playing NIN. I hate having to rely on other people to cure me. Personal preference I suppose, but I assure you it's still a great tank.

[Valyana]

Whereas a PLD gets hit for 10's and 20's and ends up losing a bunch of hate in the long run because they can't cure themselves.

Only if they're too lazy to cure other people in the ally, or failing that swap in more +HP gear for a cure.

[Belkin]

Meh, touche

[Saivan]

Nevermind the fact that most Paladin's can't get a full Stoneskin.

It's not that they can't, it's that most don't try.

Barring incorrect math, with 210 base skill, you need 110 MND to cap Stoneskin at 350. I have 68 base MND on Hume PLD75/RDM37, you only need 42 MND in gear swaps...

Easily acquired stuffs (off the top of my head):
Kirin's Pole = 10 MND
Promise Badge = 5 MND
Devotee's Mitts/+1 = 5/6 MND
Jet Seraweels = 7 MND
Gallant Coronet +1 = 6 MND
Valor Leggings/+1 = 3/4 MND
Sapphire/Aqua Ring x2 = 8/10 MND
Al Zahbi/Moon Sash = 2/3 MND
Crimson Scale Mail = 10 MND

Mix and match what you can aquire, etc.

Edit: Tack on Stone Gorget and Stone Mufflers for an extra 60 HP stoneskin, and replace the lost MND in other slots.

[rog]

It's not that they can't, it's that most don't try.

this.

any job with native enhancing skill can easily cap SS. hell, if i didn't have stone gorget, i'd be able to cap it on brd, with 105 skill, which requires 145 mnd. i onry get 374 on brd with gorget though ;;